In reply to Ashyukun (Robert) :
Galvan in Harrisburg nc can do galvanized for you. They do trailer frames and stuff frequently. Today the had 60 ft i beams
In reply to Ashyukun (Robert) :
Galvan in Harrisburg nc can do galvanized for you. They do trailer frames and stuff frequently. Today the had 60 ft i beams
Dusterbd13-michael said:In reply to Ashyukun (Robert) :
Galvan in Harrisburg nc can do galvanized for you. They do trailer frames and stuff frequently. Today the had 60 ft i beams
I'll keep that in mind, but if I go that direction I'm hoping there will be a place a bit closer to me that can do it (I'd guess there's someplace in Cinci or Louisville if there's not a place here in Lexington, and if not there has to be a place in Indy) as Harrisburg is a bit of a haul from here.
POR-15 applies pretty easily, and holds up well as long as everything is prepped right, and it's not exposed to much UV. But, I'd avoid applying anything until you've got the frame fully mocked up and modified for the new drivetrain. I've heard it is not fun to wire wheel off.
In reply to eastsideTim :
Whatever gets done to rust-protect the frame will be done after everything (rust repairs, modifications for drivetrain, etc.) is done- essentially the last thing to be done before I start putting things back on the frame for good. So realistically, I'm not in a huge hurry for that- especially if getting together things like the batteries, inverter, etc. take a while and I wait until I've gotten everything on the body side of things worked out (which will be a whole other- mostly electrical wiring- ball of wax).
On the Rover, I did minor rust repair then POR-15. It's actually pretty easy to grind off on a small area, weld and repaint. 20 years later, it's just fine. The rear bulkhead is exposed and has seen two decades of harsh high altitude sun, and it's just a bit faded. Highly recommend.
I would not do powdercoat on a project car. That's a show car thing. Project cars are too mutable.
In reply to Keith Tanner :
I wonder if there was a formula change at some point. The POR-15 that is most exposed on my Beetle is pretty chalky, it's only about 5-6 years old and the car spends a lot of time under cover. The stuff in the interior is still pretty good, though.
So the place here in town got back to me with a quote- $650 to media blast the frame clean, and $275-$350 to powder coat it if I decide to go that route.
I'm actually a bit surprised that the quote to blast it is as high as it is and the quote to powder coat it is as low as it is- but I suppose that about $1k to clean and cost a frame isn't all that bad these days...
Waiting to hear back from several mobile blasting people/companies to see what they'll charge- but I was able to get pretty much everything else off of the frame last night. The only things still on it are the two front flex brake lines that go through brackets on the front of the frame because I cannot get the nuts on the fitting that goes though the brackets to come loose, in no small part due to the fact that the brackets are just bent sheet metal welded to the frame and any attempt at breaking loose the nut just results in the flange bending and starting to tear away from the frame. I imagine that I'll just have to cut the brackets off completely and make new ones to weld on (and replace the brake lines- I already have to replace at least one hard line that snapped when trying to get it loose).
eastsideTim said:In reply to Keith Tanner :
I wonder if there was a formula change at some point. The POR-15 that is most exposed on my Beetle is pretty chalky, it's only about 5-6 years old and the car spends a lot of time under cover. The stuff in the interior is still pretty good, though.
That was the story 20 years ago too, that it would go chalky. Maybe I'm just not picky enough about the finish on an exposed piece of frame on a 48 year old off-roader :) I'll take a closer look at it tomorrow, but iirc it just looks a bit oxidized. You can always topcoat it.
Here it is today. This has been outside continuously for two decades and is fully exposed to high altitude, high UV sunlight. I think that's dirt on the center section (had a trans fluid spill in the back that covered the center secton mid-trip a while back, and that glued dust to the rear) but the paint is definitely not shiny anymore. I guess that's the chalkiness. I haven't tried waxing it to see if it'll buff up because, well, this is not a waxing kind of vehicle.
Closer.
The sections underneath and inside are still black and shiny when I clean them off. For a frame that's inside/underneath a car like a Delorean, I wouldn't hesitate to use POR again.
I sandblasted and powder coated a Miata chassis (after seam welding). Couldn't be happier.
It's not UV safe, but that's ok.
On a Delorean I'd do it again in a heartbeat.
Called up one of the other places I was referred to about getting the frame blasted, and their ballpark was $7-800 and are about 20 minutes away so would have to come and haul the frame there, so it sounds like the local place will be the way to go.
Currently reconsidering the timing of it though since I won't be able to really do anything with it once it's blasted until at least the beginning of the month since the garage is going to be occupied by the non-profit's yard sale stuff until then. It may be a while as well before I really have figured out what modifications will be needed for the new drive train, batteries, and such- and I'll need to figure out a temporary rust-protectant measure between when I get the frame back from being blasted and when I coat it however I end up doing (I'm actually somewhat leaning toward the POR at the moment, because there are several places that will be somewhat encapsulated once I weld up all of the repairs so I'd be able to put the POR on before closing up the repairs).
Over the weekend I got the go-ahead from the place that is going to clean up the frame to drop it off today, so I finally broke out the angle grinder and cut out the really badly rusted part of the front frame box so they would be able to blast off the old epoxy more easily.
This morning I grabbed a trailer from U-Haul and with KYAllroad's help loaded the frame up on the trailer and took it to the shop for them to blast clean. They said it could be from 2-3 weeks for them to get it done (they primarily do commercial stuff, so it will get done when they have the time between other jobs), which works out well for me since it will mean it's not in the way for the yard sale this weekend and I'll have time to do some clean-up and organization of the garage after the sale to things will be better set up for working on it when I get it back.
I'm trying to track down a few cheap engine stands to make into a cheap DIY rotissarie to put the frame on when I get it back so I can easily work on it from different angles.
Ashyukun (Robert) said:I'm trying to track down a few cheap engine stands to make into a cheap DIY rotissarie to put the frame on when I get it back so I can easily work on it from different angles.
I did this with my TVR frame and it worked out great. I did put in a little effort to make sure the pivot points on the two engine stands were both level and at the same height. Beyond that, it was easy and super helpful.
So last Thursday I finally heard back from the blasting place that they were finished with the DMC's frame- they had been very busy with the commercial jobs that had precedence over individual jobs and it had taken them a lot more effort than expected for them to clean the old epoxy coating off of the frame (their initial attempt with just media blasting apparently didn't even dent it). But they finally got it done, and I was able to pick it up and haul it back home last Friday.
The good news is that the frame is cleaned off and I can now get started on cutting out the rest of the rusted sections and start in on fabricating the replacement sheet metal sections that will be welded in. The bad news is that a) the blasting place either made no attempt at cleaning up the blasting media from on/inside the frame or did a very lousy job- I'm not sure which is worse- and b) there's a lot of sections I'm going to have to replace. Before I unloaded the frame completely I went over it for a while with my shop vac to try and get rid of the blasting media- there has to be several pounds of media in the vac after doing that:
It's going to take a bit to cut out the rusted sections and fabricate the new ones. The very front is going to be the most extensive- I already know I need to get a new front frame extension (it's a separate part that is welded to the main frame, so available on its own- though it's NOT cheap, and if it didn't have so many integral fasteners and mount points I'd just fabricate that too and save nearly $1k), but most of the front box is going to need to be replaced as well. I'm thinking for the smaller section in the middle of the 'web' behind the box (lower right in the picture) I'll probably just clean up he rusted out section and weld a sheet over the outside instead of trying to replace the whole section.
I'm not going to be so lucky with the back of the frame though- I don't think there's going to be a way around replacing a both the web and the cap here, which is complicated by an additional piece boxing in the bend on the outside (on the other side that you can't really see).
Finally, the rear 'box' under the engine and between the rear shock struts is going to take a lot of work too.
I have been keeping an eye out in hopes of picking up two cheap used engine stands to use to make a DIY rotisarie, but have had no luck finding any within a decent drive- I may just end up having to buy two from HF and deal with it costing a bit more to make it easier to work on the frame.
Today I finally put in the order for the new front frame extension that is, essentially, the whole reason for this project since the original one rusted too badly for the car to be safely driven. I'm kind of pissed that I didn't just order it when I first started since doing so would have saved me like $600, but I figured it was smarter to order all the parts I'd need from the company (in Europe) at once instead of just getting the frame extension then. Hindsight and all...
The new part should get to me in about a week, though it will likely be a while before I have the frame to the point that I can weld the new one on- I just didn't want to wait any longer and have it get even MORE expensive...
Didn't all the DeLorean parts go to someplace in Texas? The guys in Texas don't have these parts?
In reply to MiniDave :
Yes- DMCH (Houston) has all of the parts that were made originally and they have made a number of new ones. But the front extension isn't a particularly common part that people need and they don't always have a stock of them (and they cost about the same as from Europe).
When we got home from our vacation on Saturday there was a large, fairly heavy package waiting for me! I'm pretty impressed, I ordered the parts on Tuesday and it looks like it was delivered on Friday- not bad for free shipping and having come from Ireland! I'm definitely glad I waited and ordered it when I did and not right before leaving so it wasn't sitting on our doorstep for like half a week!
Now I just need to get the garage cleaned up and organized enough to get started working on the other frame repairs that will be needed before I can actually use the new parts...
So, over the last few days since getting back I've been looking at LOT at the EVs available at auction nearby/within a reasonable shipping distance and got very close to bidding on a few- but decided after looking around that I need to do a LOT more research and figure out exactly what I really need for a donor vehicle and what will be needed beyond that. It's quite confusing actually... for example, Teslas are in many ways their own separate little ecosystem and a pain because you can't get many things from anywhere BUT Tesla- but at the same time, they're THE most common EV around so there is a LOT of knowledge and experience- and products- to support using them in a conversion including a VERY nice control interface that allows for regen braking, cruise control, and using their app on something like an iPad Mini as a dashboard. Unfortunately the pretty much most common one- the Model 3- won't work for my purposes because the battery modules are like 6 FEET long and there's nowhere on the DMC to make that work... I could theoretically buy one and completely tear down the battery modules to their component cells- around the size of C cells- and build my own but that's a LOOOOOT of work and time.
So, as a start, I took something I'd seen someone who had done another DeLorean electric conversion do and updated and adapted it a bit for my purposes- and made a spreadsheet of all of the common/available BEVs and their specs. It's VERY much not comprehensive- especially when it comes to the Teslas... there are a STUPID number of variants of them. Each model could be its own spreadsheet with as many entries as it would need- but the spreadsheet summarizes things decently. I don't have a lot of info at the moment on the configuration of each of the battery packs for the different cars and manufacturers, but I hope to expand on that a bit since it will play into my decision of what I want to try and pick up.
Next up is trying to get as comprehensive of a list as I can of the existing DMC EV conversions and the details on them- there's no real point in reinventing the (electric powered) wheel and I'm sure all of them have learned valuable lessons from their conversions that may be helpful to me.
OK, so I've done a good bit of searching around to try and find info on the existing DeLorean electric conversions and (again) put them into a spreadsheet. I'm sure that I'm missing some- but those are what I've found so far.
Looking over the list and having looked a bit through the pages on them, it seems that there are three main routes that I could take:
There's still a lot that I need to look into, especially when it comes to what I'd have to get beyond a donor EV. For the Teslas the largely 'plug and play' approach is using EV Controls' T-2C which is like $3k but allows easy configuration and control of the Tesla drive units- the downside being the price (though I don't know what the competing options really end up costing either) and the fact that it looks like it isn't set up to be able to have a wired dash and only uses a bluetooth link to the app for that (though you can wire in physical buttons for things like activating the Cruise Control option). I'm curious to dig more into the Bolt build to see what he used for the vehicle control & BMS since it's the most well-documented that I can find.
Lots to think about... for now though I need to get the garage cleaned up and organized so I can really get working on the frame repairs.
So, it's been a busy last week or so...
Over the weekend I finally got the time to make enough progress in my garage to be able to finish making the adapter to allow me to mount the front of the frame to my (very, very jury-rigged) 'rotisserie' (2 engine stands) so the frame is now fully off the floor and can (somewhat- I need to link the two stands so they don't yaw badly when the frame is rotated (since the frame isn't mounted at its CG).
Next steps on the frame will be figuring out exactly what will need to be cut out, repair sections fabricated, and the repair parts welded on. The frame will need to be shored to make sure that everything stays straight when the bad sections are removed and the new welded in.
In any other week, that would have been a major accomplishment (which it still is)... but it kind of pales next to the fact that I now have a donor vehicle for the drivetrain/battery/everything else.
The donor vehicle is a 2024 Volkswagen iD.4 S, which is the base-model RWD iD.4 SUV. It has a 201HP/229lb⋅ft electric drive and a 62kWh battery which gave the iD.4 (at about 1,000 lbs heavier than a stock DMC) a range of 209 miles and a 0-60 of 7.8 seconds (R&T tested the DMC when it came out and rated its 0-60 at 10.5 seconds; DMC's literature said it was 8.8... I'm more inclined to believe R&T...).
Why the iD.4? Mostly that I was able to get so new and low-mileage of one for as cheaply as I did and that it looks like the drivetrain should be fine despite the damage, but it has the specs that work for the car as well. The motor isn't quite as powerful as some of the options- the Bolt's is supposed to put out about 25% more HP- but it's still solidly higher than the original PRV and will have a LOT more torque (as a reference, the recently-promoted Electrogenic conversion kit puts out only about 15hp more and the same torque). The battery is comprised of smaller modules like the Bolt's as well which should make it easier to reconfigure to fit the space that will be available in the DMC. Unlike a number of the other options (excepting the Teslas) it's RWD instead of FWD as well, and the DMC uses (ancient, but...) VW spline axles so there's a possibility that the axles will be easier to figure out than with other choices.
Downsides? To my knowledge there haven't been any DMC conversions using an iD.4 (or any VW BEV) before- and I've not really seen any conversions that have used the drivetrain that VW uses for the iD's (in part because it's relatively new). So I'll be kind of pioneering what can be done with it (which was not entirely a bad thing- I didn't really want to copy another build...). As a result of this, I don't know whether the motor/gearbox/inveter stack will fit will into the engine cradle in the back of the DMC's frame- but this isn't as much of a concern to me as you might think since I'm going to have to make a fair bit of repairs to the cradle area of the frame anyway, so if I need to cut the original cradle out and fabricate a new one to mount the new drivetrain, so be it.
Unfortunately, I won't have the iD.4 here to start pulling things from for another month and a half or so since I won't have the space for it until then. Hopefully I can make some progress on the frame before then.
The EV conversion is far enough out of my comfort zone as to make me queasy just thinking about it.
Subscribed for the duration.
Pete
So I got a very small amount done on the DMC yesterday- I've been slowly pulling out the wiring & hardware for the ancient aftermarket cruise system I put in so wae can see if it can improve the driving experience of his Miata, and yesterday I pulled the center console to get to the wiring underneath.
*sigh* I'm not looking forward to the stupid amount of wiring work that this is going to entail... everything essentially is going to come out of the DMC and as much of it as possible will be replaced with the iD.4's wiring and electronics. Which is good, because the DMC's wiring has always pretty much been crap (the whole reason it has a battery cut switch is because of it having a slow drain that I was never able to track down).
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