In reply to jimgood :
There's a very distinct pattern if you read through my build threads or hear stories of my life before I joined the forum. I call it the Sadim touch, because everything I touch turns to E36 M3.
Unfortunately the pattern doesn't follow if I say something like "I do not want and cannot possibly spend a million dollars. Not gonna happen, I just can't do it".
RevRico said:In reply to jimgood :
There's a very distinct pattern if you read through my build threads or hear stories of my life before I joined the forum. I call it the Sadim touch, because everything I touch turns to E36 M3.
Unfortunately the pattern doesn't follow if I say something like "I do not want and cannot possibly spend a million dollars. Not gonna happen, I just can't do it".
That makes the occasional success story so much sweeter.
Last weekend I went in to the cellar and opened up the shutoff for the pipes that run through my unheated crawlspace to a spigot on the side of my house.
They did not freeze and explode over the winter, I did not have water spraying all over my crawlspace, and I did not need to go under there again and replace a bunch of PVC pipe. Again.
It felt GREAT.
And, as far as the cast iron waste pipe goes, is the pipe in your cellar rusty? If that's still intact, you can get a flexible sleeve/collar thing that's PVC on one side that will clamp to the old cast iron pipe. Cut out enough old pipe to get in new plastic for seating your toilet and you're good.
This assumes the waste pipe is actually connected to your septic system.
I'm at a loss for words. Finally decided to quit procrastinating and soldier through, and Holy berkeley. Just dumbfounded.
I drilled the hole for the shower drain, and oh boy I found supply and drain lines right where I need to put my pipe. Guess I gotta go start stripping the basement.
What the actual berkeley?
So the 1.5" going to the right is the drain from the bathroom sink and somehow the old tub, simple enough. 4 inch is obviously toilet, but where the berkeley does it go to the right? There's only one toilet upstairs.
into the utility Room and through the block wall to??? Maybe into the snake garage where I have an uncapped 4 inch pipe sticking up through the floor?
Do I dare open it and see if it can be removed?
Also of note, the block wall behind the toilet pipes? Yea there's 6ish feet of house behind that.
If I ever see that old berkeley again I'm gonna punch him in the Dick, 80 year old Nam vet or not.
Hmm... not knowing the house/property layout, maybe an RV hook up?
In reply to Ian F (Forum Supporter) :
Yes it was actually. The old owner had a house trailer for his dad in the top driveway. Talking to the neighbor a few minutes ago, that was the tie to septic. I see 2, 4"caps in my future when I hack that E36 M3 off.
Neighbor doesn't know what the 3 inch line in the snake garage is though.
Not entirely uncommon when doing a bunch of drainage piping to add a toilet connection in the garage, just in case there is a desire to convert it into a bedroom suite sometime in the future.
It starts as copper in the bathroom. Copper, fernco, pvc, fernco, copper, fernco, abs, pvc. What the absolute berkeley.
In reply to RevRico :
At least you're leaving the next owner something to look at, scratch their head, and mutter "WTF??"
how bad does this cast iron look to anyone else?
There's no such thing as cast iron "looking bad". It rots from the inside out.
Tap it with a hammer. Solid feel with a little bit of ring and it's ok. Slightly dull thud means it's not long for this world.
If it has serious rot your hammer will blow through the side like wet cardboard. You'll know what to do.
Note... Don't whack the hell out of it. You can break brand new cast iron with a hammer. Tap the top third to see what it should sound like (and feel like), then tap the bottom third. Should sound and feel similar.
Of course I forgot 2 1.5" 90s to get the small drains tied together.
Pushing for progress this week.
The 2x6 wall between bathroom and daughters room is insulated. All the electrical is done.
Going back and forth about completely replacing the plywood sub floor instead of just the section under the toilet. With all new toilet plumbing I shouldn't have to get back into it like I did last summer, at the same time, it could be handy having those sections already cut and able to be moved. And this project has gone on more than long enough.
Ah yes, there was a nice dull thud on the horizontal cast iron, so all new toilet drain incoming while the toilet is pulled for drywall and paint. Need to figure out how to stop the old cast iron from falling behind the concrete block wall when it gets disconnected though.
I found a pex manifold for the hot water lines. 3/4" in to 4 1/2" outs, so I'm going to use it to try to clean up hot water plumbing. Without using pvc as an intermediary I don't think I can do the same for the cold. Hopefully the 3/4" cpvc will be back in stock when I go back to Lowes so I can use it as a manifold base.
Rubber under mat is purchased for the shower pan.I'm going to do evening I can to avoid a mortar bed, but I may wind up needing one.
Need to figure it what to do with the shower walls. The kit I bought that I thought installed on finished walls connects to studs instead. The front and back are taller than the wide side, because of berkeleying course they are. Maybe just cement board and let it be ugly painted, might prove longer lasting than drywall would.
I really hope my rash and hives are just stress related to this berkeleying room and will clear up once it's done.
Insulation is up, hot lines are run but not connected, hot manifold is built
I think it's time to address a long term problem I've had, the thermal expansion caused water pressure spikes. I replaced the pressure relief valve on the HWT twice, so it's a safe bet to me from posting here in the past and days spent on Google that the problem is thermal expansion.
Since I disconnected and have been stripping away the oil burner radiators, I have a 3 gallon pressure tank I can use. It's currently sitting on the drained oil burner input loop. This could solve my the issue on its own, if I can figure out where to install it.
I WANT to manifold the cold water like I am the hot. Meaning one big line into something with a handful of 1/2" lines off of it, with individual shutoff valves. I could do this by connecting 3/4" pex to the 3/4"copper main and run 3/4x1/2 reducer Ts. I have all the stuff to do this. What I don't know is how to plug in the pressure tank to that setup.
This is the current mess of water connections. 3/4"main comes in from the right on the back wall, crimps to 1/2", then a series of TS and loops take it to HWT and rest of the house.
To be honest, cutting out all the random vertical loops and switchbacks that are throughout the copper plumbing could very well solve the pressure issues by itself, but I want to do this right, especially since I'm already this deep into it.
RevRico said:I WANT to manifold the cold water
This is the current mess of water connections. 3/4"main comes in from the right on the back wall, crimps to 1/2", then a series of TS and loops take it to HWT and rest of the house.
To be honest, cutting out all the random vertical loops and switchbacks that are throughout the copper plumbing could very well solve the pressure issues by itself, but I want to do this right, especially since I'm already this deep into it.
That setup.... takes talent. And vision.
Maybe you can give the previous homeowner a pile of screen doors and have him make a submarine out of it.
first sheet of drywall is up. Turns out the walls aren't square, which I assumed, but leaves me in a strange place. I think I can compensate.
Looking like Monday I'm going to make the plumbing switch over so I can cut out the old stuff in the way of my drains
The manifolds. I'm going to mount some plywood to the basement walls and mount these to it, so o have a nice stable base to run everything from.
I worked H.S. & College summers as a drywaller in NYC back in the 1980's. The last home I renovated, a 5 story double duplex, had an unfinished basement. Framed in metal studs then rail-roaded the sheetrock (4' tall 8' wide) The bottom four feet was a special order non-cellulose gypsum board wrapped in fiberglass - NO paper. Mold needs organic material to grow on. No paper, no mold.
As for your bathroom ceiling vent fan, does the bathroom include an outside wall? If so, vent it our between the overhead joists to the outside of the house with a shielded side vent.
If you find the sound of a screw-gun soothing, and I mean, Who doesn't. Then lowering/leveling, isolating your ceiling with metal furring strip (a.k.a. Chicago bar) mounted perpendicular to the overhead joists is handy. You can feed new wiring over the furring strip for lighting and any other electrical accessories. Need a recess for a light or vent run? knock a hole with your hammer or cut it with a hole saw.
As for any dodgy looking looking studs, Fill a spray bottle with half bleach & water, and saturate them. And again. Then assess once they've dried out.
If you want the bathroom to last, you have to have some kind of membrane in the wet areas. before the technology in a can got to be amazing, I used to spray some 3M 77 glue to the studs, apply a plastic membrane horizontally working from the bottom up so the top overlapped the bottom (think siding), then 1/2' cement board over that, then tile. That way, any moisture that soaked through went down, and eventually back through. Not perfect, but better than drywall. Nowadays, you can put the membrane on top of the wall sheeting which is ideal - whether that's in a can or using a "system" is up to you and your wallet or credit card.
IF you decide to replace drains with PCV, get the thicker wall section stuff or plan on sound insulation. Heavy Cast iron Drain pipes are QUIET. High density is sound abatement. PVC is much lighter and much louder.
Death to all galvanized pipe. It rots from the inside out and then, years later, falls apart if you look at it funny.
If you are replacing the bathroom floor plywood, then use blocking between the joists to tie them together and make them stronger, then using PL2000 or a similar construction adhesive, glue and screw the plywood. If you plan on applying tile, then lay a scratch coat of polymer modified thinset as you screw down some 1/4" Hardi backer on top of it. If you want to put an electric radiant heating grid in the floor, now is the time. Then pour a bucket or two of self-levelling on top and lay your tile. You program it to warm your tootsies in the morning. The self-levelling stuff is expensive, but worth it. just make sure it can't leak through anywhere before it sets, because it will.
Since you have the bathroom apart, make sure the plumbing is properly vented. Gurgling or poor draining or lingering smells are signs that it isn't. The vents are designed to break the vacuum that occurs when a slug of water flows through the pipe. The elbow cast into your toilet base, and the elbows under your sinks are intended to always be full of water to prevent gasses from venting back into your home. A proper vent nearby ensures they don't get vacuumed down while water is draining. The vent breaks the suction.
And if memory serves, bathroom sink minimum drain diameters is 1-1/4", kitchen sink 1-1/2" and tub/shower minimum 2". Feel free to double check, it's been a while.
Another random mistake people made before YouTube: Mount the tub directly to the studs before the wall board is installed. The wallboard comes down just to the top edge of the tub flange, not behind it nor all the way down to the horizontal portion of the tub. The former will allow water behind the tub and the latter encourages capillary action to wick up inside your wall board material.
Have fun!
I just wrote this all out my hand, but I want to put it here to. Part for posterity, part to see if I remember or forgot anything. I have 4 bodies coming tomorrow to help get stuff squared away.
Not replacing the toilet drain. Feels like a bad move, but the vent situation is a mess and I'm not wasting the time. This also lets me return a bunch of stuff.
Currently at about $4500, still need vanity, trim, primer, paint. E36 M3, and flooring. Gonna be a bit over $5k when all is said and done. I have a big pile of stuff to return that should hopefully soften that blow a little, but we're going to be paying this off for a while
Just under half the drywall is up, there are a lot of gaps to fill. Oh well.
I can't say I'm proud of the manifold situation, but nothing leaks. None of the fittings, anywhere. berkeleying love pex. I had abbot 5 inches of blue and 5 feet of red left. BBut berkeley it, everything has been replumbed now, I better not need it again any time soon.
So this week I can finish piecing in the drywall, get the shower in, mud and sand, and maybe, just maybe, it'll be done before the party on the 27th.
I'm berkeleying tired. Up at 7 to get dinner in the smoker, then prepped everything for today to try to get as much done as possible, before everybody showed up around 1. Worked mostly straight through till 10.
Was going to throw in a few pointers for the manifolds I learned from some plumbers. I'm a little late I see but ok with that set-up. Not a big fan of pex as it always looks like a mess. Just like M/C for electrical. If it's hidden in walls no problem. But for exposed work it usually is just plan ugly no matter how you try to run it.
Also on the expansion tank it should be on the cold water side about a foot or two before going into the tank. Might want to go to a rigid copper pipe for that part with the pex coming into the piping above the tank location.
If not done yet the bathroom has to be on it's own 20 amp circuit. All the bathrooms can tie together on the one circuit but I wouldn't do that. That's for the cheap track house electrical installers looking to get in and out fast.
You can do whatever you want in the shower just as long as the trim is rated for that use.
In reply to brad131a4 (Forum Supporter) :
Thanks for the tip on the pressure tank. I may move it over yet as there is still some thermal expansion happening.
The electrical... This bathroom is 2 circuits. The outlet is on the circuit for my daughter's bedroom right next door and oddly so is the ceiling fan in the living room. The rest of the bathroom, so lights and fan, are another circuit that appears to be dedicated. At least I didn't notice anything not working when I had the breaker off for a week.
The other bathroom downstairs is on a different panel altogether, thankfully. Makes things easier ish.
If you can stick the GFCI on the light and fan circuit. That's ok as it's for the bathroom only. Stepdad had a small General contracting company and I've been Wiring up commercial buildings since 85. Not much I haven't seen that surprises me much anymore.
Once other suggestion, while it may still be easy, put an additional outlet down next to the toilet. If you ever want ot install a non cold water bidet you will need a plug close by. After traveling to Japan I've decided I need them in all my bathrooms, but now have to figure out the electrical to get what I want.
Is that 1/2 pex on the water heater, and to the manifolds?
In reply to lnlogauge :
For the time being. It was supposed to be 3/4 copper to pex, but the shsrkbite fitting from the previous owner isn't coming off without unscrewing the pipe coming out of the heater itself. Or adding fire, fire might work, but it's a precarious position for torch work.
Heater is from 2014, it doesn't have long left to live anyway. It's also electric.
I understand this:
There are other similar code citations discussing how PEX can be connected to all types of water heaters: tank type, instantaneous, and tankless coils, but this one from the Uniform Plumbing Code can suffice:
604.11.2 Water Heater Connections. PEX shall not be installed within the first 18 inches (457 mm) of piping connected to a water heater.
cited in
- HUD, PPFA, DESIGN GUIDE for RESIDENTIAL PEX WATER SUPPLY PLUMBING SYSTEMS [PDF] (2006) HUD, U.S. Department of Housing & Urban Development, Plastics Pipe Institute, Inc (PPI) 105 Decker Court Suite 825 Irving, TX 75062
But I'm willing to gamble, at least temporarily with all new everything, with this:
But the risk of burst piping is partially mitigated, as you can read in the following excerpt from the same HUD document.
In the event of a water heating system malfunction, PEX piping is designed to accommodate short-term conditions of 48 hours at 210ºF (99ºC) and 150 psi (1034 kPa) until repairs can be made. The most commonly used safety relief valve (T&P) activates (opens) at either of these temperature or pressure conditions.
All PEX piping has been tested to withstand T&P activation for 30 days to ensure that safety requirements are met.
As such, PEX systems DO NOT require the use of a special T&P valve.
the manifolds themselves were almost made out of pvc instead because the fittings needed are exponentially cheaper, but enough self arguing and rereading convinced me otherwise.
you really should have it 3/4 to the manifold. I ran 1/2" to my upstairs bathroom, and I regret it. the water pressure isn't what it was before the pex.
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