Cheapest car to build?

Stefan wrote: Got any FWD cars laying around that need a new life? MidLana It's a Locost for modern times.

Those are a really clever design...modern day locost/7 a perfect description.

Spiritus_Spatium wrote: In reply to Ovid_and_Flem: Sounds cliché, but learning. Second would be having a fun street legal canyon carver. I just want to be able to smoke a GTI in a budget haha

Learning, and then what?

I think the question is more directed at how you want to use the end vehicle, to help answer what you should build.

For the most part, you are dealing with tubes, cutting and fitting them, and then welding. From a trophy truck down to a Locost- that's all the same thing. So you'll learn the same thing on anything you make.

Which brings back the question of what you want to do with the vehicle when you are done. IMHO, THAT will better bracket the direction of what you should build, and what the cheapest source is.

In reply to alfadriver:

But I did state my intended use. You even quoted it

I just want a fun canyon carver that is faster in the corners than the usual hot hatch. Needs to be street legal/friendly. Not an all out race car.

In reply to Two_Tools_In_a_Tent:

You're absolutely right. I believe I need the engine/chassis invoice from the donor car and invoice of the frame work. That my dad can take care of (he has a shop that can give me an invoice as long as I buy all the metal to his name).

But it is doable

In reply to Two_Tools_In_a_Tent:

I'm familiar with the samba but not a member. Always amazed at the amount of knowledge there is in there.

Thanks :)

In reply to Stefan:

It's quite tempting but I don't have experience and both the cooling system and suspension/steering scare me a lot haha

Just so you all know, I've put my car for sale, it's not in great condition but whatever. I hope it sells quick, this will fund the project. I should get $1500 to $2000 for it.

Spiritus_Spatium wrote: In reply to alfadriver: But I did state my intended use. You even quoted it I just want a fun canyon carver that is faster in the corners than the usual hot hatch. Needs to be street legal/friendly. Not an all out race car.

I think more to the point Alfa was asking is it going to be your daily driver, weekend toy, autoX car, track event terror or what?

If it's gonna be your main mode of transportation calls for different build goals than if it's only gonna be a fair weather weekend canyon carver.

Ovid_and_Flem wrote:

Spiritus_Spatium wrote: In reply to alfadriver: But I did state my intended use. You even quoted it I just want a fun canyon carver that is faster in the corners than the usual hot hatch. Needs to be street legal/friendly. Not an all out race car.

I think more to the point Alfa was asking is it going to be your daily driver, weekend toy, autoX car, track event terror or what? If it's gonna be your main mode of transportation calls for different build goals than if it's only gonna be a fair weather weekend canyon carver.

Right- the more specific you are, the easier it is to recommend something.

Although, if it's just a canyon carver, I'd do a simple Locost, since there's a plethora of documentation on how to do that. Find a decent 4cyl pick up, and make a car out of it.

Or if a simple FWD car is easier to find, do a Midlandia version.

Still, I would back up and even question why do you want to build a car from scratch? Cars in the hot hatch area are super fun to drive. And can you really use a car that is faster in the corners than a hot hatch if you are not racing it?

Which circles back to does it need to be faster, or just more fun to drive? Like for me, back when I was racing, I knew a Miata was a far faster car to race than my Alfa, but it was more fun to me to drive the Alfa. So, for a canyon carver, maybe lower the limits to match what speeds are reasonable so that it's more fun.

Ovid_and_Flem wrote:

Stefan wrote: Got any FWD cars laying around that need a new life? MidLana It's a Locost for modern times.

Those are a really clever design...modern day locost/7 a perfect description.

Well guess what the Vibes 2zz-ge is going into once it finally meets it's maker? That is cool.

In reply to alfadriver:

Yes I know what you meant haha I thought I had been specific enough. I don't want a hot hatch, I already have my S40 T4 that feels similar.

I want to be involved in the build of my car. It obviously won't be a daily but should be able to be driven daily. I want fun to drive factor more than pure speed. With 50hp I don't think it's gonna be too fast anyway but I'm thinking of a megasquirt junkyard turbo setup.

I want it to be focused on the corners, that doesn't mean it needs to be super predictable or scalpel like. I just want something that can handle a corner and be fun.

Also, as I said, building it "from scratch" (not really since I will basically weld a cage to a chassis) is crucial because eventually I want to build a more serious Locost with a turbo 5 pot from an S60 or something.

Right now I just want to play around a bit with car parts and see how it all works (I have a theoretical understanding of things but want to have hands on experience).

The Locost idea scares me a bit because of the suspension geometry setup and the cooling system. The closest I could build to a Locost is the caged D21 body.

Thanks again for your input man. I hope I can get something started soon!

With all due respect, Spiritus, if fab bing a cooling system intimidates you, youre jumping the gun a bit in tackling a canyon carver build. Its just a radiator, some hose and maybe an electric fan. Now building a suspension system from scratch I understand, but cooling system is simple.

You alluded to using a d21 chassis and caging it to come up with a locost/7 style machine. But slapping a cage on a compact truck frame is just gonna result in an evil handling front weight biased something. Reason? D21 truck chassis layout has the engine waaay forward based on required relative location of cab and truck bed. The locost engine placement is almost mid chassis far rearward of front axle centerline whereas d21 engine is over front axle. I don't think a caged d21 sans-body will acomplish your goal aesthetically or performance goals. (You mentioned vette kart which I have but it works because engine is behind front axle centerline)

Options for a canyon carver at this stage relative to your build skill set? Find an affordable lightweight FWD 2 door something with bolt on performance parts availability. Lower with cheapo ebay sleeves/springs, wider wheels sticky tires. Add lightness, i.e. Spartan interior, somewhat gutted, etc. Budget junkyard turbo. Go have fun.

Or since super beetles are available and cheap and simple same formula as above. Or a subaru engine swap and learn how to fab cooling. Keep in mind super beetle suspension is similar tp porsche 924/944. Handling is akin to early 911s...drop throttle oversteer.

Or an older lightened beetle with tb suspense and transplant a super beetle motor into it for a lightweight sleeper.

You'll be more prepared to build a locost with fab skills learned from building up a production car first.

Just my 2 cents. Good luck whatever you decide.

In reply to Ovid_and_Flem:

Hey, no offense taken man. Sometimes I exaggerate a bit. Suspension does intimidate me, cooling doesn't exactly scare me, but it does seem daunting to me. I don't think it's a complicated system and I know the basics of how it works, but doing a custom system for a car is something I'm sure I can get wrong very easily.

Now, if we're going there, then I think midlana is easier than a FR setup because the suspension geometry is already designed and there's lots of space at the front. I could probably put an I5 from a Jetta at the back.

For the record, the whole thing seems hard but it's the kind of project that can take two years right? That's why I'd rather start building this.

We don't have super beetles here, btw :/

I was also thinking of simply building the Beetle adding lightness and the megasquirt turbo setup, not because it's easier but because I wouldn't feel too good chopping a Bug to build a kart haha This I was thinking at lunch time.

Spiritus_Spatium wrote: In reply to Stefan: It's quite tempting but I don't have experience and both the cooling system and suspension/steering scare me a lot haha

Buy the book and it lays it all out.

The suspension is mostly MX-5 Miata parts.

The trickiest parts are the tubing bends and notching the tubes properly.

In reply to Stefan:

Yes, I'll buy it even if I don't build it. The knowledge is valuable even for my Bug project.

Spiritus_Spatium wrote: In reply to Stefan: Yes, I'll buy it even if I don't build it. The knowledge is valuable even for my Bug project.

If your looking for something more modern, is an early Miata an economic possibility? Don't know the market in Mexico.

But I know that vw bugs were produced as late as 2003, right?

In reply to Ovid_and_Flem:

No man, only NC and ND made it here.

RWD sports are relatively expensive, even old V6 Cameros and Mustengs :/

Easy build vw canyon carver

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simple frame from square tubing

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Bill Rutan's 4 cam mid engined porsche powered vw bug hill climber from 1960s

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In reply to Ovid_and_Flem:

I saw the first one yesterday, that was the only one I found that was not meant for off roading.

That square tubing frame is essentially a way of lowering the car right?

So, I think I have the answer. A FWD based reverse trike. Basically attach seats and a rear wheel with fabricated arm and be done haha

I'm oversimplifying this, obviously.

NOW you're talking ! ! !

If it ever goes from just talk to a real project you HAVE to start a build thread, but find a decent photo hosting source first !

Or better yet, write long drawn out descriptions of what you're doing and how it's turning out and never post a single photo to verify it. Sort of air-build. All talk and no substance. But be specific as Hell just to torture us ! !

Be kind of surreal, hopefully this would become the norm at GRM. Just a bunch of guys chatting amongst themselves about what they're doin' with out a photo ever being seen.

You could become the bellwether right now. Tell me—how's that front wheel drive trike coming along.

In reply to Two_Tools_In_a_Tent:

Oh, it's coming along just fine. Haha

Now, I do want to update all of you guys who chimed in. How would I do that? Just posting here won't let you know will you? PM to each and all of you? Haha

My car is still for sale but no buyers :/

I was thinking about just selling it as parts for someone who wants to do a manual swap but I live in Mexico City. I believe in the US there's people interested in these as they never made it there.