FrankenFerrari - V12 Ferrari 308

In reply to Gammaboy :

Life happens.  I'm 2 weeks over estimate on my floor....color match issue I think is nearly resolved but no engine until the floor's accepted 

I got the new alternator and it looks really nice, very close in size to the original.

From there the assessment goes down hill a bit.  First its got a clutch on the drive pulley I can't for the life of me understand why?  but the fact that it does makes me question changing the pulley.  The pulley it has is 6 rib and I run 4, that should be ok though.  The bigger concern is the OD is smaller which for sure will help give me more juice at idle but makes me worry a bit more about slippage and over reving at high rpm.  I'll need to think on this.

Then there is the plug, it has 4 wires.  3 usually means its a smart voltage regulator and the 3rd is from the ECU to set system voltage, which I guess they do to improve fuel mileage?  not sure about a 4th, hopefully its just a ground but I'll need to find a wiring diagram and do a little research to figure out what I need to do to make it work.

The overrunning clutch allows the belt to have minimal tension, which improves fuel economy, belt life, and accessory bearing life.

You aughta see how much the serpentine belt flaps around when those clutches seize.  And they make quite a racket, too.  There is a lot of rotating mass in the alternator, and the front of the engine has enough rotational vibration that the overrunning clutch becomes important.

Do you follow Project Binky on YouTube? I am 99% sure that their accessory drive solution failed because they didn't take this into account.  And I think their fix won't take very well because they put the overrunning clutch at the wrong end of the flexishaft.

Ther is no down side to the over run clutch prior to it's failure. Keep it, it is an enabler due to the extra rotating mass that is 1/2 of what makes the extra output.

It's not the clutch that concerns me, i just never saw one.  It's the pulley size i a bit worried about.  Right now I'm looking for the hyundai crank pulley diameter and redline to figure out how fast they meant that alternator to spin and go from there.

I spent some time yesterday looking for wiring info....hyundai stuff it hard to find and there are no labels on the alternator connector......but it looks identical to a Honda connector which I did find a pinout for and info saying only 2 pins are needed to make it work.  The other 2 are are used to tell the ecu to increase idle rpm and can be ignored. Hopefully that's info is correct.

If it helps any, I am pretty sure that I have run a Mitsubishi alternator to about 25,000rpm, maybe more.  The water pump didn't like to pump very well at whatever the pulley ratio was and 7500-10,500rpm engine speeds, so the original 5" crank pulley got binned in favor of a 3" pulley.

How often do you really run that high, anyway?

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

How often do you really run that high, anyway?

That is a thought I've been having and it was only $115 so I could just see what happens and worry should I need to replace it.

Up at the pocono ax today with my son then a few tune-up to the floors this weekend.....then dare I say its finally car time again?

V12 converted F40 hitting the block

I still need to do some moldings and I'm told tile has been ordered for the powder room wall, but I was in the shop for a couple hours tonight figuring out where I left off,  and then grinding cylinder shims which is really really boring but at least car work has resumed.  

There is also now a negotiated settlement of car budget, Going forward I get $250/mon no questions asked....its not a lot but its way more than $0  

I finished the shims up Friday 

Today I separated the engine from the trans and got it on the stand.  I looked for the bolts to mount it on the stand for at least 1/2 an hour then lana pulled me to go get molding and while driving I was vaguely remembering tucking something in one of the tubes on the stand...yup, the bolts were in a zip lock tucked neatly into the top tube, right were I'd need them next time so they wouldn't get lost...DOH!

I've also been thinking about shocks a bit as part of the suspension work I want to do.  With my $250/mon budget revalving the shocks is probably next year and AC the not until 2026 but a buddy was working on his and kindly shared his spread sheet which I added 308 stuff to to see where my shocks kind of are with the new springs.  And mostly what I've learned is that I don't know a whole lot about setting up shocks...but luckily I don't have any money to mess with them right now and have a year or so to think about it.

$250/month no questions asked, plus how much  per month if you field some questions?

🤘🏻😎

this thread has taught me that you can do more with $250/month than I could do with $250/week. 

AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) said:

$250/month no questions asked, plus how much  per month if you field some questions?

🤘🏻😎

this thread has taught me that you can do more with $250/month than I could do with $250/week. 

Why back in the thread some one asked about cost and I said "challenge budget" because I spend about $2k/yr and when that is gone things sit until next year.  Getting that $2k was a challenge so it had double meaning but now we've agreed on the $250/mon which is $3k/year so more than I was spending and hopefully no more ...umm... challenges.  Its a toy and it will never actually be "done" so having a budget is probably for the best.

The liners were kind of stuck so I had to pull the crank

Then knock the liners a bit.....and yuck

I need to move back onto molding the rest of the day then a night or 2 cleaning stuff before I can start assembling anything but I'm hoping to have it on leak test by next weekend.

Productive evening.  The cylinders are all better

For sure it was from letting it sit after a failed leak test, you can see where the water level sat....another reason air makes for better leak tests.

I also blasted most of the rust out of/off of the block.  Still needs a little final cleanup but nearly ready to start reassembly.

ping pong back to shocks.  I know many are running QA1 shocks including a buddy of mine who said 6/4 front rear on the clicks and shared the graph from the QA1 manual, this is the newer 18 click version so it looks like the red line is 0, so the blue and green line are likely 3 and 6 click respectively. the 6/4 was were is started to get harsh.  I did a search and people with the older 12 click version were saying 4 clicks is harsh, so % wise about the same.  His other comment was it also felt loose over anything

What really caught my eye here that rebound is nearly the same as compression.  OEMs like about 1:3 ratio comp:rebound and my current shocks are just that as were the OEM konis which are also show on my graphs.  That is a compromise for street use to let the bump move the wheel easily to make the ride feel softer but they jack up the rebound that you really don't feel as easily to help settle things.  On the oem konis with the oem springs the average damping is exactly critical, meaning the system will settle with no additional oscillation.  

The shop I bought them front basically said, you're not hating anything about the ride use they kept the compassion about stock and added more rebound to better control the stiffer springs.  I am feeling more damping would be better and was thinking 20-50% more compression.   The QA1 green line is just about exactly where I am now on compression so Ik could probably double what I currently have and now hate it as that would put me right about the QA1 blue 6 click line.

Rebound wise though, I'm already on the QA1 blue line at 1in/min, 0-2in/min is generally considered low speed damping, and the transition knee is usually right around 1in/min so by  2 its fully into the highspeed damping behavior.  Low speed is small bumps like highway joints and and the pitch/roll/dive from driver inputs....so to make the car feel responsive you want to add low speed damping, but that will also make it feel every bump aka harsh.  The high speed range is big bumps, track curbing and such and I'm at near full or nearly so on my current shocks with the new 800/500 springs and that feels ok.

So my thought for when shock make the top of the list is to ask for more like 50-80% more compression then maybe center up the rebound so full range currently closer to centered....but I still want to play with the spread sheet a bit more  and see where the average damping is compared to critical damping...that seems importantish  I can't just add lots of rebound as then the suspension won't actually rebound very well.  I'm also still a little confused about preload...it doesn't play any roll in oscillation but does does change the spring force relative to the shock force....so I'm pretty sure less preload means it won't like being over the critical damping numbers as much on rebound as low spring rate high preload OEM setup will tolerate.  I need to think on that a bit more.

I tweeked my back somehow so progress is slow  (and why I was playing with shock curves) but the liners are back in the block. I set the shims in place with a dab of hylomar

Liners in

Lowest

Tallest

Today the heads go on, after my son wakes about and I can corral him out in the shop to give me a hand lifting it so I don't make my back feel any worse.....or maybe I'll use the crane so Io don't need to wait until noon.

I like those numbers.

Heads are on and the engine  baking 

The teenager suggested this looked like an outside project and brought me a hose.  

How warm can you make it with that set up?

TurnerX19 said:

How warm can you make it with that set up?

I brought it to 180-195F. Shut it down about 10 minutes ago, cooling now.

By far not the best leak test I've done, but luckily it's for information only.  Now I know I should start with straight water and a mix of blue devil and bars leaks.

I've got a few sad looking rod bearings, again so clearly I did sad job cleaning the crank....cleaning it properly is the next project.

I discussed an advance with lana to fund a quick assembly and it was not rejected ...the stairs get refinished AFTER the ferrari runs so......

What's the "oven" for?

In reply to mke :If the leaks are in the perimeter and not around the flame ring which hopefully shims fixed could be a good result .

In reply to Gammaboy :

I started doing it when I was using sealants, things moved on 1st heat and it needed re-torque.

This time the new head gaskets came with instructions to start the engine with no coolant and and let it get to about 120F then let it cool and add plain water, then full heat, then add coolant if desired.  So I figured I could do the 1st heat in the oven, its supposed to seat the sealants...then I figured might as well re-torque....not sure if it was a good idea of not but i did it and it had lost some torque.

dave215 said:

In reply to mke :If the leaks are in the perimeter and not around the flame ring which hopefully shims fixed could be a good result .

 

Maybe.  These gaskets have sealant applied to seal all the passages....so I'm thinking it's still probably around the flame rings, but I'd love to be wrong 

The blue devil stuff sealed it nicely last time so valves fixed, drop gears fixed, call it good unless I actually blow a head gasket....I don't mind needing sealant

Fingers crossed for you!