FrankenFerrari - V12 Ferrari 308

YES!

Good thing the extension cord didn't pull anything out of the car with it.

Its clearly not really running on all cylinders.  It fact getting it running at all wasn't so easy.  It started of a few, then a few more....then wft is the temp gauge saying, hot?  after a little confusion I realized the water pump wasn't pumping...I don't even know how that is possible but I added more water and pressurized the system until water came out the bleeder on top of the engine, and that fixed it the cooling system.....but it still wasn't running worth a damn and was now hot and it was dinner time. 

While eating I realized that as part of fitting the air box and ducts I lower the throttle actuator but I never reset the TPS zero points.  Also It was pretty obvious the intake had been leaking so the ITB balance was a mess.  I fixed the TPS settings, roughed the TBS all the same with a .006" feeler gauge and cleaned the plugs....it popped to life at 4k rpm.  Quick shut down and reset the idle throttle position which is what I'm doing at the start of the video and its at like 1200.  It for sure wasn't firing on all 12 but I REALLY wanted to know if thew drop gears and trans worked so off I went while forgetting to unplug the laptop.  

The drive went great! (mostly) I clicked through the gears up to 4th quick and clean.  The clutch felt nice.  The brake pedal as a little long at the end of the driveway, but the force to stop was nice and I honestly didn't even notice brakes on the rest of the drive so I think that means they where just fine.  The new drop gears are pretty near silent and the trans adapter did work.  All good.

There was a small puddle of oil in the driveway, hopefully its a fitting and I need to get all the cylinders running.  Also my power steering was off....the controller is hanging under the dash so hopefully it a loose wire. 

also, if you listen you can hear the front valance bang the road leaving the driveway too aggressively ...oops

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

Exactly, completely forgot I'd plugged in the laptop, but nothing broken so all good

Audio of V12 Ferrari in the distance while staring at nothing was well worth the time.🤘🏻😎

In reply to AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) :

I almost cut that but I figured I could still hear it really the full way around the .75 mile loop and I was tired and didn't want to wait for it to re-save 

Tonight I looked for ther oil leak but didn't really find it....its high up somewhere on the right side is all I got.

The MAP sensors issue was a system baud rate setting.  When I reloaded the model the system settings did not reload and I missed this one as it was on a hidden channel.  Easy fix.

It didn't pull great yesterday.  The log (until the laptop shut down which is way it was plugged in)says it was lean and bank 2 more so....I'm not sure 7 was running much if at all but the throttle never crossed 20% and it was getting leaner as it opened so TB sync buggered and MAP correction not working could be the whole answer so I'm not going to do any more digging until some of the other stuff it sorted.

Plugs 7 and 12 for sure look wet along with maybe 9 and maybe 3and 6.....I'm going to use the sealant tomorrow I think.  

I'll try to run it tomorrow and use the sealer, then get some coolant in it so I don't repeat the cylinder rust.  Then see where I am after that.

Some days are better than others and you can be pretty sure a day that needs that thought wasn't a great day.

It kind of started with I have no idea why the power steering isn't working.  I thought I'd find a connector unplugged but no so that investigation continues.  I have a CAN to usb thing I've never used so I'll try to connect to the can cheater thing I bought that tells the steering controller to turn on, ideally I would have don't this before when I knew it was working and could log what it was saying, no it its not working I'll need to buy a new one.  If it is talking a new steering unit maybe. both bad options.

At the early tuning stages I like to get it started and know all the plugs are clean so clean plugs in and hit it with ether. It fired up nice, I'm pretty sure all cylinders were running this go.  It sounded great so I add the head sealer and moved on to TB syncing.  Something on the 9/10 adjuster is not quite right and it hit the limit of travel but I got is overall decent and as I adjusted and it warmed up rpm kept coming up so I had to back the TB position setting down as low at it kind of goes, then pull a bit of timing.  I was running it kind of a fast idle like 1300-1500 figuring I'd pull it down once I was happy with everything but higher idle would keep all the cylinders running for now.

Coolant was showing about 80C and circulating nicely.  The sealer stuff that wants it to idle for 50 minutes.  At about 8 or 10 with me looking at the temperature readout on the ECU saying 82C while the gauge which is driven by the ECU say 140F like it was turned off, weird I was thinking as it overheated and spit water everywhere.  The water has sealer in it so white spots everywhere now.  I'm thinking I really should have put the cap on after I poured in the sealer but was thinking lower pressure is good and I know it says around 80C...no worries.

It also covered the electronics.  I dried everything hit it with ether, reconnected the lap top...what the heck is unknown board exactly I wonder? 
 

no fuel pump running at key on....and what do I smell.....its familar.....like the smoke leaking for electronics maybe.  I opened the ecu and there is nothing obviously wrong plus the USB is talking to the PC, its just not saying anything helpful so it doesn't seem fried but clearly is not working.  I reviewed the log and at first didn't really see anything.....why does the TPS say 5% when the table calls for 6%.....and didn't I change that to 5?  The timing doesn't match what the log says was in the tuning table but does match what I remember setting it to and there is an rpm drop when the timing changes just like I remember...the log does not have the correct table values   WTF is going on?  

Wait a minute...what is going on with the battery voltage mostly 11-13 and dips as low as 6.5V about when I remember the engine nearly stalling  and the log show rpm, fuel pressure and everything else dropped

I pulled up the log from the drive Tuesday....13.8V from the time it started until the time the PC died.  And I know I looked at the dash at least once, the alternator light was off.  There was an odd sound that came and went but I was pretty focused on other things and figured I'd come back to it.  I'm  thinking the starter stuck and is now quite fried.  The solenoid clicks but that seem to be it.  I confirmed the engine turns fine and have a charger on the battery but I probably need a starter.

That brings me back to the ECU.  It does a lot of wonderful things but it has a couple quirks.  Power needs to be applied to the pins in a certain order and if I have a 6.5V in the log it likely was lower and the ECU could have shut down or more likely was powered by the 5V was applied from the PC through the serial connection and 12V permanent and 12V ignition on would have been reapplied  together while the processor was already powered up....so all bad and very wrong.  

There is also a thing it does where if for ANY reason a division by 0 occurs, if locks up, much like it is now.  The solution to that is to open the ECU,  connect a serial adapter directly to the board, and reload the firmware.  Then power it up correctly and reload the program, then reload the model and all the data.  I can't find my USB to serial adapter so I ordered another, it will be here tomorrow.  Hopefully this will fix the ECU and if not I'll be down for a bit saving for a new ECU.  

If the ECU comes back to life I'll pull the starter and replace it....I use a chevy unit, its 2 days and $90 on amazon.

It doesn't seem to be leaking oil any more really....little wins I guess.

I look at your unwavering determination to see success despite a cornucopia of excrement thrown at you, as a model of character to aspire to.

I don't know if I could keep doing this in your shoes, and I'm pretty stubborn already.

Huzzah! 

I'm pretty sure the persistence is just serve OCD...just the though of leaving a project unfinished makes me physically ill.....I only slept about 4 hours last night   :shock: 

And on that note, this morning before work I went out to the shop did more digging and found all the stuff I use for working on the ECU on the bench.  Connected it and powered it up correctly and it appears to be working just fine. It  reports its model and serial numbers which allows the PC to connect and everything looks just as it should.  I'll leave it on the bench until I confirm the car's electric system are in order.

When I connect the battery in there is a little spark just like always.... its small but I'd like to find out what it is and stop it.  The starter solenoid still click but the starter does not engage, I'll pull it today and also inspect all the wiring to see if its safe to put the ECU back

For sure the starter is dead....and it hides neatly under the rear headers so maybe not quite 2 hours to pull it.  I found one the LOOKS to be the same unit on amazon arriving tomorrow... as long as I was willing to take red and chrome instead of black and yellow zinc which is a week away so red and chrome (or bright zinc maybe) it is.  Its a starter sold for chevys  but I made a custom adapter nose for it so ideally this is the same starter I have and the nose will drop on.

Fingers crossed it will be the same.

And once you spend another 2 hours putting it back under the headers you won't notice that the red on the starter is a different hue than the leads.

The ECU is back in the car and everything seems to be working again.  

I readjusted the throttle actuator linkage and worked on 9/10 (I have to admit with a mallet) and all the TBs appear to fully close now.  

I"m pretty sure the oil leak I was seeing is the oil return from the rear head to the block so there is no good way to fix it other than remove the head which IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.  It is a 0 pressure gravity drain so I got it really clean and rtv'd the head to block seem which pained me more to do than its probably paining most of you to read.....but the head is not coming off..  fingers crossed its at least a very slow leak now.

Tomorrow morning I'll clean up the plugs again and get everything ready to reassemble.  The starter say arriving by 10pm....nothing ever comes after 6 so hopefully it back together tomorrow or Sunday morning at the latest and ready for a Sunday drive.

Oh, I figured out the long brake pedal sensation I think.  I have an in-line master connected to the parking brake handle that locks the rear brakes so when the car is parked and I push the pedal only the front moves but when I drive the parking brake it off so both front and rear move and there is about twice the pedal travel and that just feels weird after playing with the pedal when the car is parked.....I can't believe setups like I have are even legal.   

In reply to Piguin :

Yesterday, moments after I shut the engine down with just about everything going wrong and me in a near panic my very private neighbor right across the street who buy only Porsches stopped by to say the car sounds amazing.   He looked it over a bit and said, "I though you said you changed the engine?"  Then today I sold a few car/shop bits and the 3 guys stopped by to pick the stuff up on there way to the drag strip, they also thought I was messing with them when I told them the engine didn't belong in the car and it wasn't anything ferrari produced.  Its those moments that make all the other stuff worthwhile because that is exactly the reaction I was going for and why you know there is no way I'm installing a red starter tomorrow without first paining it black 

mke said:

In reply to Piguin :

He looked it over a bit and said, "I though you said you changed the engine?"...

... they also thought I was messing with them when I told them the engine didn't belong in the car and it wasn't anything ferrari produced. Its those moments that make all the other stuff worthwhile because that is exactly the reaction I was going for

and why you know there is no way I'm installing a red starter tomorrow without first paining it black 

outstanding on all counts!

I have an in line hydraulic handbrake on one of my RX-7s.  The first brake application after using it is lower than normal, I think because the handbrake pushes fluid backwards towards the brake master cylinder before the compensation port closes.  (No, this doesn't make sense if you think about it a bit, but I also can't see any other explanation)

Putting a 2psi check valve in the line between the two master cylinders has always been the plan, but I never got around to doing it.

I futzed today mostly.  I pulled the plugs to clean them and for sure all the cylinder were running so that is great.  ( was pretty white, but it was way of adjustment too so kind of expected and still at at least some color

1,3,6,7,12 were a little wet.....fingers crossed on the blue devil.  The instructions say 50 minutes, I got 8 maybe so 42 to.

I cleaned the white mess off of most everything
[attachment=6]20240914_150008.jpg[/attachment]

I messed with the steering a bit.  the oscope is seeing data on the CAN line from the little steering enabler thingy.  I tried to get my CAN to PC thing working to read it with out luck but that is a me not understanding how to set it up thing not a steering thing.  So I'm still not sure why its not working......probably a winter project.

The starter arrived about 6:30 and was pretty near a copy of the old one

Now to be completely honest I don't remember all the choices I made when originally adapting it so the fact that the housing as a lip much taller on the new than the old and a machining the adapter to accept the tall lip would cut the adapter apart makes me thing I cut the lip down on the old starter.  

So I decide to just swap housings.   once it was apart it was clear the old starter was fried, it smells just awful inside...that sickening burned electric wires smell.  The solenoid lever so also pretty sad making me kind of wonder if this was an ignition switch issue?  I'll need to keep an eye on it.

With it apart I painted the starter housing

Then went to work swapping the front housings..and the new drive gear didn't fit quite right.  I had to cut the pocket 0.030" deeper  to keep the reduction gear from rubbing on the adapter housing.

But by 8:30 it was cleaned up and assembled and ready to
 pop onto the starter motor in the morning once the paint has dried.  It should be about 2 hours to put everything together, but I don't want to fire it up before 10 maybe anyway.  As long as the muffler is off I'll run the vacuum lines to the curt-out valves  and maybe making getting that working a mid-week evenings project.

A quick current status while I try to figureout why my laptop if off

Man, it sounds *angry*

In reply to Jay_W :

It kind of does and here's a bit more.  This video kind of ends at a random time because the gopro battery died and I didn't realized so the 2 go for a drive videos are just in the driveway and kind of worthless.

The last plug pull 1 and 12 were dry, 3, 6, 7 still wet.  I've since put another heat cycle on but haven't check the pulls.  I don't know how much sealer is actually in the engine after the overheat the other day so if it doesn't seal I may drain it and refill with fresh know quanties. 

I made a couple neighborhood laps and started playing with tuning....I'm trying to decide where a good balance between using timing of throttle for idle control is....less timing the TB are open more and easier to sync but its using more fuel and making more heat.  Timing is set at 5 degrees right now and throttle at 7% which makes idle MAP about 50kPa instead of the 40ish and 5%  I was running last time....I don't know.

I do know the plugs are coming out glazed, so too wet on start up and you can see it in the video.  I pulled a bunch of fuel out of the start up table after the video and also leaned everything...I'll have a look at the plugs tomorrow as I'm still having trust issues with the WBO2, if a cylinder cuts out the lambda reading is hard to interpret.  Its not snappy like it was last time yet but the drop gears remain quite then 2nd gear works perfectly so I think I'm in a better place.

You can't do much tuning until you have all cyls firing. Wb will always read lean with dead cyls so keep looking at the plugs. If you have headers and an ir gun you can find dead cyls quickly. W itb too lean they will be popping like crazy like if there is a balance issue. Getting my 6cyl balanced was bad enough, good luck!

In reply to Paul_VR6 (Forum Supporter) :

Yup, tuning with mechanical issues is a bugger.  Clean plug, a shot of ether and all will start, but not restart usually as they are wet.

The tb sync thing I have sorted pretty well though.  Each tb has a MAP so the ecu can correct the fuel to match its air. The sync needs to be pretty bad before it causes any issues other than not as smooth as it could be.

Here is what I"m looking at in the video, MAP readings for all the cylinders

Quite a bit of variation but then on this it shows what the computer is doing to compensate....the low MAP cylinders get less fuel, the higher MAP cylinders more.  There is a global MAP (cyan) that is used for global fuel and the cylinders are compared to that and ther correction applied so all the plugs come out about the same color.

The map variation doesn't look bad if that is representitive. I only balanced mine to 2kpa and its drifted to about 4 and its fine. I would even turn the comp off to see if its causing more issues than its fixing. 

Paul_VR6 (Forum Supporter) said:

The map variation doesn't look bad if that is representitive. I only balanced mine to 2kpa and its drifted to about 4 and its fine. I would even turn the comp off to see if its causing more issues than its fixing. 

I picked a kick of random time point but you can see in the log its pretty consistent.

The try without comment (which I have done) made me think a bit and for sure the cylinder MAP fuel correction it over correcting.  The cylinders with the lowest MAP are lean, the highest MAP rich...and looking at it I was vaguely remembering taking a short cut that applies the correction to the fuel pulse directly and thinking I know this is wrong but it should be fine.  Looking at the data at thew jmoment in the log above, the fuel pulse is 2.2-2.3ms, the dead time is 1.16 so almost exactly 1/2 the pulse time is dead time and my correction it almost exactly double what it should be....I need to fix that because I'm not making it better,  just opposite error the out of sync TBs created .  :oops: 

Worked late and a trip to the store meant it was getting dark and I had not interest in running the engine in the dark.

Pulled the plugs and over-all I'm happy.  The colors say that on average its idling very near a lambda of 1.  

1,12 still looked pretty dry and I think 3,6, 7 were drier than previously so I think its almost there.  I picked up another bottle of sealer because between the boil-over and running I've had to add at least 2 gallons so I've probably lost  about 1/2 the sealer.  Next run I'll add another 1/2 bottle.

I'm a little confused about the idle MAP reading I'm seeing now compared to last run...never mind, as i was typing I realized what I did, its the way I edited the spark table.  The numbers I typed are the same, 6 degrees but last time it was at 40kPA and 60kPa was 18.  This time I cleverly decided to get rid of the 20 and 40 kPa row and just use a 50kPa  so this time the timing is actually 6 deg, last time it was  the interpolation between 6 and 18....so at 45 it was about 9 degrees.  I'm not loving the change because at rpm goes up and I get out of the idle setting the timing goes up and the MAP down which is probably why its not feeling at snappy as it was last time.

I usually lock timing as I make these kind of adjustments. Get fuel consistent and go from there. Even idle a hair rich to give it wiggle room. Leaner than stoich itbs get grumpy faster. Then go play with timing then fuel again.