FrankenFerrari - V12 Ferrari 308

Alignment went just like everything goes, slow and painful but I think I I have the rear in a happy place now with right about 3deg camber and just over 1mm toe-in, both wheels pretty identically pointed along the body centerline. Yay.  The plan is start very neutral on toe or 0 to slightly minus in the rear and 0 to slightly out in the front. Camber I need tire temp data to know the the right numbers, but there are right numbers to get tire temps even across the width.....toe is sort of a feel thing so near 0 until I know how it feels.

It took about 4 hours to figure out how I wanted to measure everything without buying anything and then get the measurements I was after.  Camber was quick, just add about 1/3 deg on the right but toe started out at about 14mm toe-in and shims had no effect because the toe slots I put in the upper a-arm frame mount were in....I won't say the wrong direction but an unhelpful direction.  So upper a-arms off, and grind 3mm in the other direction.  Recheck and find toe's nothing like it was...but I got it.  Front tomorrow I guess and hopefully it goes a bit quicker.

Oh, rebled the the rear brakes while the wheels were off......I saw near 0 air.  I'll do the front tomorrow and it there is no air there I guess raise the pedal a bit, I can't have it go to the floor on a hard stop.

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

Call me weird, but I've always liked the idea of an EFI system that used a small range pressure sensor (like maybe a fuel tank pressure/vacuum sensor) in a venturi.  That way you are measuring the airflow directly, like a carburetor does, and it'd work with ITBs without having to have an airbox that funnels to a MAF sensor.

Are you thinking a single venturi in the air feed tube or maybe the TBs themselves?  Either way I'm sure it could be done.  Any MAF scheme will cause a pressure drop, aka hp drop which is why you don't normally see any sort of MAF on race cars.  A venturing meter can have a pretty low pressure drop, but that means making it very long so packaging is a problem. 

Years ago I was on an FSAE team and they required a 20mm flow restrictor.  All the competitive teams make that a venturi and I think ours was 10 or 12 in long and really and really hard to make, but we beat all the turbo teams hp wise with an NA engine and a well done venturi on the flow restrictor.

The front suspension just plain confused me.  The caster was about 1deg?  Which I refused to believe for about 12 measurements but does explain the vague feel....why it was 1deg I'm just not sure.  The ball joint spacer I welded on was made the spindle 15% longer, so is should have lost  roughly 15% of its caster but it lost 75% (spec is 4-5deg)????  The front is adjusted with shims on lower a-arm frame mounts.  The rear mount is like 80% camber and 20% caster and the front mount like 80% caster and 20% camber some quick math and I need to offset the 2 mounts about 15mm.  Luckily I had 15mm spacers in there to set the camber so leave the spacer in the rear, remove the front...but then it looses a little camber, so add 4mm to both mounts, but I also wanted to add another deg of camber, so 4mm more to both mounts and 8mm front, 23mm rear.  I extended the mount bolts by 15mm I think it was, but with 23mm or spacers the washer had to come off to get the nyloc nut showing 1 full thread.  So caster at 4deg, camber at 2.5deg (best I can tell) and that is all the camber I can have without an even longer bolt.  I'm also into a place where adding camber reduces ride height so front ride height is 3.5" (frame to ground) unless I extend the shock or relocate a mount.  Its looks really good that low, if I can drive it.  

Front toe is +1mm as a starting point. Another 4+ hours of my life wasted.

Getting the printer running for the flow meters was a whole other thing.  Out low on resin, but they have a newer version and who knows how old the stuff in the machine is plus the light says change the print film.  I did all that but that is wouldn't read my USB drive, but its my son's printer and he made the file and wasn't home...so wait until 10pm to start whats about a 12 hour print....so this morning I'm doing forum updates instead of working while I wait.

Oh, bleed the brakes, almost no air came out.  But part of the whole thing was a noise up front so good change I was distracted by that and not getting the pedal feel right in my head.  I looked over the suspension pretty carefully  and found nothing but then did find the the wheel weights were knocked off and  there's a scrape almost all the way around the wheel....but it doesn't come close to touching anything anywhere at ant suspension compression and turn angle that I could see and I was going straight so.....I'm wondering if I left a wrench hanging on a bolt or something like that...just more front suspension confusing me.

The anti-dive + lowering the ball joint killed the caster!  Actions have consequences.

The venturi meter thing looks pretty cool

...but I decided I had very little trust in it so I just used the MAPs then  silicone the bejesus out of the linkages.  

If it moves again its getting jbweld. Waiting for that to dry I started looking for the screws for the wheel wells and exhaust cover...didn't fin them but did play a couple rounds or "why the heck is this junk in my shop?".

I feel like such an idiot.  I spent almost 2 hours looking through boxes for the muffler cover bolts  last night and this morning I realized I'd left them at lowes

Also last night I glued the bumper up last night, it was a little delaminated from the fire.  Bumper is stretch maybe....this is a "euro" bumper reproduction that is just a light weight fiberglass copy of a bumper and saves about 30-40 lbs.  I think I may have left the bolts for this at lowes :)

In reply to mke :

green wicking locktite works well on that application

dave215 said:

In reply to mke :

green wicking locktite works well on that application

Doh!

After the exhaust cover was on I thought I was ready for the bumper but it looks like the grommets are gone so those are ordered.

and I think the bumper bumper shocks are broken....I'm pretty sure they are supposed to be aluminum

I decided the stuff I have is also too heavy so I ordered some 1/16" wall and since I could only fine 1 of the 14mm bolts I bought new 8mm bolts which seem more appropriate to secure a decoration.  Its kind of nice to be checking non-engine stuff off the list.  

Here are what the plugs looked like this morning.

Given this I trimmed the fuel up in 11 and down in 3,5,9,12.  I warmed it up and drove around the block 3 times today making main VE table adjustments after each drive and it was pretty good on drive 3.  Its still hot but here are the rear plugs

I did nothing to the cylinder trims on 1&6 and I'm pretty sure the TB screws didn't turn.....but I'll correct the fuel on them tomorrow along with whatever I find on the front bank.  Weather is sketchy this week but there is a chance that for the 1st time in 20 years Wednesday will be bring your Ferrari to work day, if not the following Monday or Tuesday maybe.  There is also a push for the 1st ever bring your father's ferrari to HS day.

Just around the block I have no real sense of the new suspension sadly.  Last year on the first drive 1st drive I had the shock at like 4 clicks, way too soft with these springs.  Then I went full in, 18 clicks, and it was better for sure but seemed a bit harsh at speed.  Now I'm at 12 clicks in...fine around the block but I need to get it out to see.  

Also there is  too much PS assist.  with the caster up were it belongs there is a little self centering in the driveway but still nothing at 30mph.  Don't in any way get me wrong, I like this WAY better than FIGHTING to turn but I want a lower assist setting....and I cleverly hid the controller behind the dash.

This morning I dropped the rear to about 3.75" to better match the front that is at 3.5" and made it in/out of the driveway without scrapping every time.  I need to snap a profile pic....it looks REALLY good at this ride height.

As an aside, yesterday was summer tire on the supra day so I helped my son with that  but walking between the garage where the supra is and shop where the ferrari is led to "that car is so much lower than my supra" followed by measuring and yeah, just over 8" lower :)

So.....

Plugged the other 6 plugs, looked at them as a set and decided where to add fuel, where to subtract.  Loaded the tuning updates from stuff I saw in the last drive along with the new cylinder trims.  It fired right up to a nice idle. Had my son jump in the passenger seat to saw him how I get it out the driveway then figured we could switch and he could drive a little while I tuned.  I backed i tout to the turn -a round, dropped it in 1st, pulled forward....what the heck is that sound?  

Shut it down.  We look at each other and push it into the shop.  I get a (big) drink while I ponder.....I pulled up the data log and oil pressure was good.  Then I settled on pull the plugs...oh

and I'm pretty sure there used to be a head on this intake valve.

This is down for the season.  But on the bright side I have time to figure out the caster and steering assist, maybe get the paint on the back fixed. the front tunnel cover doesn't seem like its sitting right and a whole long list of cheap to free projects while I save the $2-3k to fix this mess.  I guess it also means the heads will be off so I can repair the port oil leaks properly,  and no need to worry about the leaking cam cover.

Oh man that's brutal.

The downside of antidive if you get it by angling the lower control arms (and I apologize for not remembering how you did it) is that it makes the ride a lot harsher, because the wheel has to move forward a little in bump.

Foxbody Mustang racers used to redrill the rearward front control arm mounts up very high for antidive but they didn't care about ride quality.  The OEMs, if they go for antidive, do it by angling the upper control arms.

Man that blows. I hate to see all the fight you're having with this car lately. I'm cheering for you even though that doesn't mean a whole hell of a lot coming from the cheap seats. Wish there was something I could do man.

That just sucks.... I can't believe that you aren't getting some drive time.

Sorry

In reply to mke :

I think your car is suffering from some sort of polysurgical addiction disorder...

In reply to Recon1342 :

LOL, that could very well explain it! 

Berk.

Well here's a set forward, I have a piston.  I don't recall exactly why I have it, the skirts scuffed a but so it probably measure undersize so I replaced it before I realized the3 bores were going to be oversize and I needed to coat the pistons and this one will certainly coat to fit just fine.

On the use the moment to make it better front I ordered a $7 MAP sensor that plugs into the manifold to look at.  I'm wondering if there is any way to fit these to the intake or use a short hose and hide them under the airbox.  The idea is that just wires coming out would be neater and the multiMAP is kind of cobbled together at this point so I really don't trust it so actual MAPs and combine the signals in the ECU is the thought which has the added benefit that I can look at each signal and exclude anything that looks like its malfunctioning.  A fall back plan is just use maybe 4 sensors....I'm pretty seriously thinking about locking the TBs and just doing the "sync with plug reads and fuel trim like I'm already doing.  I have time to think about it....but it feels like I should do something.

I want to know why the valve failed. Did it stick in the guide? Did a piece of detritus hold it open? If it was sticking in the guide that might have been part of erratic mixture as well.

In reply to TurnerX19 :

you and me both.  hopefully I'll know more when I pull it apart.  All I know is it went from running nice to the rattling and I shut it down as quick as I could.  The air box was on and filters connected.

All the valve train are kibble white bits, and all but the spring are now NLA.  Ferrea has valves that are pretty close, I used 2 of their exhaust valves when I damaged 2 with careless assembly last year.

Sticking valves from heat is usually exhausts.

If I had to guess, either a keeper decided to un-keep or the valve seat and guide weren't concentric and repeated flexing from sealing to the head caused it to fail.  For it to fail that quickly it would have not passed a compression test, though, so my internet dollar bet is on the keeper.

Poor valve sealing COULD be the cause of all of your weird readings, though.

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

Sticking valves from heat is usually exhausts.

Been there, done that 5 years ago and this was the result, exhaust stuck when I mistyped and retarded timing, it got hot fast and ...yeah.

this go around they were all honed and checked with pin gauges.  I can 100% guarantee the valves stems are not tight in the guides .

If I had to guess, either a keeper decided to un-keep....so my internet dollar bet is on the keeper 

It sure looks to be in place, ....I"ll know for sure when I get it apart.

or the valve seat and guide weren't concentric and repeated flexing from sealing to the head caused it to fail. For it to fail that quickly it would have not passed a compression test, though, .

Poor valve sealing COULD be the cause of all of your weird readings, though.

There was some of that in the tight guide build caused by guides that weren't drilled very straight.  and they leaked on assembly so I lapped until they seated nice with 0 leakdoewn on a bench test setup I have.  This build those valves were reground, sketchy guides replaced but  maybe......

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

The downside of antidive if you get it by angling the lower control arms (and I apologize for not remembering how you did it) is that it makes the ride a lot harsher, because the wheel has to move forward a little in bump.

 

Foxbody Mustang racers used to redrill the rearward front control arm mounts up very high for antidive but they didn't care about ride quality.  The OEMs, if they go for antidive, do it by angling the upper control arms.

I didn't drive it enough at any speed to get a sense of it beyond brake test and there is definitely less dive.

i think I got the idea here

suspensionsecrets antidive

there are a couple images showing the lower a-arm angled.

With struts I'm not sure there is any option but to angle the lower and only a-arm?  I get what you're saying and on the mondial (4 seat 308) the factory did angle the upper but that is hard to retrofit, to angle the lower it was bolt-on bits so that is what I did.   Hopefully the ride ends up not so bad.

I started pulling the engine and if I'm being honest describing the effort as 1/2 hearted would be an exaggeration.  But I drained the coolant, decided to flush it so on reassembly its antifreeze free and ready for head gasket sealer...then I realized I need to get the water out of the block and fought 1 of the drain plugs out.  It will be out Friday or Saturday I guess and hopefully head off Sunday.

About that time amazon brought me the MAP sensor I wanted to see...its small and nice.  In theory I could probably put 1 on each port but they would block my access to the manifold bolts.  I'll look at that a bit more when the engine is on the bench but right now I'm thinking use a short hose and hide them under the air box when all the hoses are now.

The aluminum tube i ordered for the bumper mount came...but I didn't order what I thought I ordered exactly.  This is 3mm wall, I thought it was 1.5mm.  Also the grommets I bought give a smaller ID than I was thinking o a different tubing might be better.  I would have liked to wrap this up so before pulling e3verything apart but I don't want to wait for more bits so I'll pack it up for now.

I'm continually impressed by the work you put into this project. I am even more impressed by your resilience in the face of setbacks. Thanks for sharing. 

Today there was still water on the floor from draining the block yesterday....I squeegeed it and moved on the picking up because I have bits of all sorts of things everywhere let form the get it done push plus it was honestly a mess before and that has to do with me being easily distracted from work I don't enjoy...oh look at all these spark plugs is various stages of fouled.

The NGK set I've been using was looking pretty worn out so they went in the trash but I have another NGK set (or 11 = 1 smashed from the last failure) that look pretty new so I ordered a 12th and cleaned the 11.  I also have 2 full sets of autolites, fouled.  In the V8 blower engine I really like autolites which is probably why I bought these for the V12.  They look hotter than the NGKs and I'm not sure how I feel about that which is likely why they are sitting, I honestly don't recall.

I did drain the oil before coming in.  Then Standing there waiting I took a closer look at the muffler....man I did a poor job building that, its off a full inch right to left so one more thing on the list.