FrankenFerrari - V12 Ferrari 308

mke said:

Apr 6 the date....plenty of time to finish the steering

Meanwhile I'll feel like I've accomplished something if I get my new bathroom mirrors hung by then.

Syscrush said:

Meanwhile I'll feel like I've accomplished something if I get my new bathroom mirrors hung by then.

Something like that would require "approval" so yeah......it would take a lot longer than a simple power steering install 

I have power steering.....time to drink again, vodka this time ;)

Here's what I ended up  doing for the mount.  The first pic is terrible but I rolled the cut edge to make a radius then bent up some straps to hold the motor against the radius.  It can't rotate with the column  but the column can still move up/down so steering wheel height can be adjusted and the EPS motor follows along happily.  Super simple compared to what I was plotting Thursday night before breaking to drink on it...think, I mean think on it.

I may or may not totally steal that idea.

You built an electric power steering assist from scratch for a Ferrari in 16 days!

The #5 reamer came and that removed all the play from the system as I'd hoped.  

I'm going to be 100% honest and admit that I would only give the speedway quickener 3 stars.  There is no slop and I have fast steering but the gears are cut not ground and straight not helical so I do feel the teeth....it will probably "wear in" and get feeling a bit better but the reality is parts don't really wear in they wear out....I think its fine but for anyone considering this path just be aware you will likely feel the gears if you're trying to.

I had to catch up on some house work and will likely have more tomorrow but I did move on to the the big hole I cut and started kind of shaping out a shape to fiberglass.  I've kind of resigned myself to the idea it will take at least 2 tries to get right

as part of the mold I had to remove a vent hose....and realized way no matter how hard I tried to seal leaks the cabin was still flooded with hot radiator air......

NermalSnert (Forum Supporter) said:

You built an electric power steering assist from scratch for a Ferrari in 16 days..... Let's let that sink in a moment.

you know ....over the years I've notice that no project is ever done until sometime after you actually start working on it.  Its easy to get so wrapped up worrying about every little detail that you never do it, I've kind of learned it best to just get on with it and see where it leads.  Sometimes it goes well like the steering is, some times its 13 years and counting like the engine.....and you won't know which until to start so best to just start now.

Picked up some fiberglass today.....couple hours and I'll know if I have something I can turn into a useable mold

mke said:

NermalSnert (Forum Supporter) said:

You built an electric power steering assist from scratch for a Ferrari in 16 days..... Let's let that sink in a moment.

you know ....over the years I've notice that no project is ever done until sometime after you actually start working on it.  Its easy to get so wrapped up worrying about every little detail that you never do it, I've kind of learned it best to just get on with it and see where it leads.  Sometimes it goes well like the steering is, some times its 13 years and counting like the engine.....and you won't know which until to start so best to just start now.

Words of wisdom from mke. I like it.

Its starting to look like it could be a usable mold at some point....

Why bother with doing a mold and pulling a part for a run of 1? You could just finish that piece as-is, couldn't you?

Syscrush said:

Why bother with doing a mold and pulling a part for a run of 1? You could just finish that piece as-is, couldn't you?

That thought has crossed my mind....but the idea of installing a panel mostly made from bondo  just kills me.  I know you're right and the extra few ounces of bondo mean nothing....but I can't do it :(

There is also a (small) chance of selling a few to the 308 owners who have installed the the EZ steer system....that would make my EPS install fee and helps me justify the bother of making a nice part for my car.

mke said:

There is also a (small) chance of selling a few to the 308 owners who have installed the the EZ steer system....that would make my EPS install fee and helps me justify the bother of making a nice part for my car.

Your ideas intrigue me and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

Note to self....let the frikin paint dry before using the mold. ....I had to cut the mold to get the part out but it is a nice part, came out paints and honestly looks OEM....but I had to cut the mold. And my goodness I made a mess......

That's good information on the steering quickener. Hopefully once there is some weight on the suspension it will be less noticeable.

Shavarsh said:

That's good information on the steering quickener. Hopefully once there is some weight on the suspension it will be less noticeable.

I didn't notice feeling the gear teeth until I set the car down on the ground and put load on it.  there was a lot of drag from the grease in the gears but no notchiness of gear teeth.  The load will be a little higher with the engine in, another 100lbs or so up front, but I doubt that will make it feel better.  Its not terrible and I much prefer the way the steering feels now to how it felt before, but it could be a bit better with a nicer quickener....that I probably wouldn't have bought because it wold cost 3-4x more money so......and it will probably start feeling better as the teeth wear a bit with use.....probably

mke said:

Note to self....let the frikin paint dry before using the mold. ....I had to cut the mold to get the part out but it is a nice part, came out paints and honestly looks OEM....but I had to cut the mold. And my goodness I made a mess......

So, you got a nice-looking, bondo-free part AND you saved yourself the hassle of making, selling, and supporting kits? WIN-WIN!!! 

Syscrush said:

So, you got a nice-looking, bondo-free part AND you saved yourself the hassle of making, selling, and supporting kits? WIN-WIN!!! 

LOL...I supposed that's true :)

In other news I pulled the trigger on new front springs, they should be arriving in a day or so.  I have 450F/400R but that just wasn't right.  Before that I had 350F/250R and they actually worked better, way too soft but the F/R geip balance was good, the current setup has the tail stepping out way to easily even after I completely removed the rear sway bar (mainly because it didn't fit with my wide wheels I added years ago but also the grip thing), so the new front springs will be 600lb/in

Then sway bars......I'm close to pushing the order button for a much stiffer front bar....its in the cart.....

Just to throw some fuel on the fire, have you seen these cockpit-adjustable swaybars?

In reply to Syscrush :

Here's where the car is with the new front springs....1.49Hz front, 1.42Hz rear.  

the ref I found is:
passenger car: 1.0 
sports car 1.25-1.75
low/no down force autoX, roadrace 2.0-2.5

stock subaru brz 1.45 f/R so my new SUPER stiff springs that are 3x the 1984 factory spring rates are nothing like super stiff and are actually what would be considered a soft spring, stiff bar setup these day I guess.

To get to 2.0Hz would be 1100/900....that's a lot of spring compared to what I here people are running on these cars!  Another way I've done the math is 4" travel is good, and should have 1.5" sag max with 0 preload, that pops out 715/595 and says my new front spring belong on the back and I need new new front springs.  The other end is 1" sag min  with 0 preload pops out 1073/894 which matches the 2.0hz numbers...funny how the numbers all match up :)

With my current 450/400 spring setup th numbers are 1.29/1.34Hz so the rear is stiffer than the front which certainly explains the oversteer issue I had.

I'm going to need to think a bit more not just on swaybar but also spring it seems.........

So...speedway called me today to let me know my springs would be delayed, they only had 1 in stock but more had just arrived, 1-2 days.  I decided that was a sign from God/Enzo that I ordered the wrong springs and was getting a chance to correct the error.  The stiffest springs I could find that fit my shocks were 900lb/in, so I ordered 900/750 that put me at 1.2" sag and 1.83hz front and rear.  Wit such a big change in the springs I will put the swaybar project on hold to see what I have before making more changes.

Here's my shock info for people that like that stuff.....along with what I think it means, I'm sure there other views on shock setup :)

On the springs I decided to stop listening to "them" and trust the math.  OEM springs are about 200lb/inch so just stupid soft.

What you feel, what knocks out fillings, is the compression damping in the shocks.  For some reason a lot of places think they need to increase the compression damping proportional to the spring rate increase and create horrible driving cars in the process.  That's just nonsense or perhaps they have no choice, there is a reason good shocks are expensive and control is that reason.

The point of compression damping (IMO) is to prevent the tire from leaving the pavement at the top of a bump so its about the mass ratio between the sprung and unsprung weight and has basically nothing to do with spring rate.  My shocks are very close to stock compression damping and as a result the basic feel over bumps is about stock even though my current springs are double the OEM spring rates and the new springs shouldn't change that much I don't think.  below are my shock graphs, the oem koi is the black line on the top graph, the purple on the bottom graph....very little change.

What was changed and I may change more is the rebound (the negative numbers). The different lines are different settings in clicks.  The shocks go 0-35 clicks, 3-33 is considered ok, 6-25 optimal so if you get out of that range they recommend a re-valve.  The rebound is what damps the springs and it the recovery from the bump, not what you feel hitting the bump.  Here too little and the car will sink a bit over multiple quick bumps as the suspension doesn't recover fast enough, too little and bounces a bit....not sure I have enough rebound for these springs, it will be close but its easy to have them re-valved to whatever spec.

I had an error in my spring spread sheet and the springs I ordered are kind of stiff and mismatched :(

It looks like the 900 front should pair with 575 rears and yield 2.6hz which is kind or moving into downforce car territory.....but still softer than the simple sag math suggests I want.  I generally prefer stiffer springs and small swaybars so I'm going to let this order roll I think.  

A buddy has 580/380 and that is 2.1....so kind of the other end of the autocross/track range spring wise with 1"/.875" sway bars and says its good.  With the heavier springs I'm going to stay where I am swaybar wise, 3/4 front, nothing rear and see....I suspect it will want a bit more front bar....but I need a running engine to be sure.

Thanks so much for sharing that suspension stuff. It's amazing to me how many people just think they're good just throwing a set of coilovers on - until I watch a few hours of YT and see that almost nobody makes videos with spreadsheets and shock dynos.