Hourly or Salary (or Celery I guess)

Following along the lines of what SVreX stated earlier. I'm salary. I was hired because of my knowledge of FDA and ISO environments. I've been a key player in mitigating an FDA 483 Warning Letter. I've prepared equipment qualifications and validations for those environments. I also run my department like it's my company. That also means adjusting resources to keep production going and meeting regulatory requirements at the time.

So I'm salary because of what I know, not so much what I physically do.

SVreX wrote: In reply to Type Q: Silcon Valley doesn't get to choose either. FLSA Computer Technicians Programmers, Software Engineers, Systems Analysts are most likely Professional Exemptions. Data Entry is definitely not exempt (and are due overtime).

I work in HR specializing in compensation. FLSA is an integral part of what I do. There are gray areas, particularly with the DOL revising rules, where is possible for a job to be exempt (salary) or non-exempt (hourly) with minor changes in job structure. If you are given a choice, I always advise people to go hourly.

In reply to Type Q:

OK.

Given the choice, I always advise people to go salary (I also used to have an HR role). I guess we disagree.

When calculated by the week, hourly usually wins. Especially when there is overtime involved.

When calculated by the year, or by the 5 year window, salary almost always wins. Eligibility for bonuses, long term employment, benefits, perks, bennys, etc.

As an auto tech i had a lot of experience comparing different ways of being paid.

As mentioned, it has a lot more to do with your employer than just Pay Structure A vs Pay Structure B.

Regardless of how your compensation is structured, though, I think the most critical part of your relationship to your employer is whether or not you're actually willing to quit over grievances. That is your primary leverage to address any dissatisfaction you may have with your working situation. If you can't or won't leave, then the thing that most needs fixing is not your work situation but whatever else it is about your life that makes you feel like you'd rather bend over for unfair treatment at work then go looking for something else. My experience both in my own work history and watching those of everyone around me is that if you have all your ducks in a row outside of your job (i.e. controlling your expenses with an iron fist when necessary so that you are able to save enough money to go many months without working), you'll be able to negotiate for far better circumstances/treatment at work as well, hourly or salaried. People who 'cant afford to quit' will be the ones getting squeezed the hardest regardless of how much money they make or how it's accrued. My .02.

In reply to SVreX:

You seem to know some things about this so I'm going to ask you.

Years ago I worked for a company that paid me percentage of what I produced each week. Hours didn't matter, we never even recorded them. The Salesman made 10%, I as a Foreman made 5% and my crew members made 2.5%. The schedule was brutal and I only lasted three years before I was completely burnt out. 15-18hr days 6-7 days a week. 33 days straight without a day off. No production meant no pay.

I was wondering if this was legal? I never thought it was.

Most salary places I've worked at treatd you like poop. I used to travel a lot of overnights and rarely could walk in Friday and leave at lunch claiming comp time. They laughed. So you would avoid dive hotels and eat better meals on the road - I did like having a company credit card.

Definitely company dependent. Current company policy is salaried employees work 37.5 hours a week. Before they got tight on bonuses I worked what I had to to get the job done. When they started playing games I started working 37.5 hours a week. They need me to work Sunday, I won't be going to work tomorrow to compensate. If you are expendable they will use you, if you are not you can set your terms and stick to them.

A whole lot of you guys work for really E36 M3ty managers.

In reply to Nick (LUCAS) Comstock:

I don't know much about commissioned or percentage relationships. Sorry, don't think I can help.

Sounds like it was rough.

I did have a business for a while where we split the value of rides with our drivers on a percentage basis. Their schedules were sometimes pretty bad, but they also made realty good money. Much more than me. The difference is those drivers were clearly defined as subcontractors, and their contract was clearly defined as a percentage. Bottom line- they were running their own businesses as contract drivers. They were not employees.

You may have also been treated as a subcontractor (if you got a 1099 instead of a W-2). May or may not have been legit. If you received a 1099 but did not know you were self-employed, it was most likely not legal.

Nick (LUCAS) Comstock wrote: In reply to SVreX: You seem to know some things about this so I'm going to ask you. Years ago I worked for a company that paid me percentage of what I produced each week. Hours didn't matter, we never even recorded them. The Salesman made 10%, I as a Foreman made 5% and my crew members made 2.5%. The schedule was brutal and I only lasted three years before I was completely burnt out. 15-18hr days 6-7 days a week. 33 days straight without a day off. No production meant no pay. I was wondering if this was legal? I never thought it was.

That's how many (legal) farm workers get paid.

Right. Farm workers are excluded from the FLSA. I guess that means they could be paid in chicken feet.

When I was in towing I was a sub like Paul describes. I got 40% of anything I did and a 1099 at the end of the year. Being young and having no responsibilities I lived in the truck making good money and spending it as fast as it came in.

Now I would take hourly over salary. They've made our management positions miserable to the point almost nobody applies for them. It's expected that you will work 10+ hours, more during bad weather or special events and your hours, job location and days off are set by them and change at their discretion. We've had guys that didn't get along with their managers have their vacation canceled as they were checking into the airport. They get E36 M3 on from every direction for a fairly small raise that I can pass with a little overtime each month.

Streetwiseguy said:

A whole lot of you guys work for really E36 M3ty managers.

Agreed. Hourly or salary, having a good manager is key. Especially with companies shifting towards "permissive leave" with no defined PTO amount.

I've been salary for 24 years, and would not want to go back to hourly. The flexibility and benefits far outweigh the ability to be paid OT. I doubt I could get the equivalent income working hourly (especially if benefits are considered) unless I was working as a consultant, and that has its own set of issues.

Sure, there are some evenings and weekends where I do some work, but it's when I decide, and usually because I took a morning or afternoon to do something personal. 
 

Working for a low salary and counting on large bonuses led to the worst work environment I've ever worked under.  I got paid a lot but it was always held over your head and you never could travel or work enough.  The two best work life balance jobs I've had were salary but you got paid a flat hourly rate for overtime.  I can pretty much get any overtime I want now, and night differential but I have to request it.  It is never expected.  I know this March I'm going to be working 50-60 hours a week but I will get paid for it.  There is a maximum total amount I can be paid per year but I shouldn't get close to it even with a month of steady OT.  
 

canoe a couple posts back

Wall-e said:

When I was in towing I was a sub like Paul describes. I got 40% of anything I did and a 1099 at the end of the year. Being young and having no responsibilities I lived in the truck making good money and spending it as fast as it came in.

Now I would take hourly over salary. They've made our management positions miserable to the point almost nobody applies for them. It's expected that you will work 10+ hours, more during bad weather or special events and your hours, job location and days off are set by them and change at their discretion. We've had guys that didn't get along with their managers have their vacation canceled as they were checking into the airport. They get E36 M3 on from every direction for a fairly small raise that I can pass with a little overtime each month.

Wally, Do you remember saying this?

I've been salary most of my working career and I've found that the trade offs like "the job has to get done" are far outweighed by the "I have a Drs appointment" "my daughter has a gig two hours away". As an employer I've noticed that some hourly teammates have a salary mindset and they usually rise farther because of it and many salary teammates have an hourly mindset that minimizes their effectiveness because they are always watching the clock. 

I was actually just discussing this with the wife and I realized how happy I am to not punch a clock.  I have had a few roles where I have been salary/billable hours and even that was too much hours and oversight for a guy who is paid to think.  

The freedom of not being tied to the clock is worth it to me, but as they say YMMV.

In reply to chandler :

I remember saying it, and I stand by it. Some situations at work and home made putting in for a promotion seem like the best decision to keep my home life somewhat steady as it looked like my wife was going to have to stop working for health reasons.  On paper, the increase over my base pay would have let me pay my mortgage while not having to work a lot of overtime. The reality was that I ended up doing a lot of 55-60 hour weeks so I would have made far more if I was hourly.  Because I was no longer union my I also paid significantly more for the same health insurance. At the time it went from $28 every two weeks to $179. In addition to all the hours at work, we're expected to be available 24/7 answering phone calls and emails which wouldn't happen if I had remained in an hourly position. We also don't pick our shifts or days off like union positions, my schedule is at the whim of my manager, I've had a few that frown on personal lives and have changed several of our schedules accordingly.  It's a miserable way to live.  

In reply to 93gsxturbo :

Being the government we've found the worst of both worlds. We're not hourly but have to punch a clock to verify we spend at least 8 hrs a day here. The really fun part is that those hours aren't as flexible on paper as they are in real life. My schedule on the computer shows I am off Sunday and Monday. Every time my schedule is changed and I'm here a Sunday and given a different day off I get nicked for a vacation day the day I'm not here and have to wait weeks for timekeeping to return it. 

Salaried and billable has been pretty sweet where I work. Yes I have to log every hour in a database, but if I work long days or come in on a weekend, and I run out of hours by the end of the month...well I guess my month of work is over unless something is really pressing. We don't get paid overtime (even though we bill for it!) so all that matters is my total hours adds up to the minimum by the end of the month. "Flexing time" is what they call it.