How many Vans? +1 cheap Promaster project

The first time I did an oil cooler on one of these, we had to holesaw the upper intake manifold because the bolts were nubs.

Promasters don't have engine covers, so the water rusts those fasteners.  All other 3.6s have engine covers.

The Dodge dealer had intake manifolds in stock.  Curious.

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

The first time I did an oil cooler on one of these, we had to holesaw the upper intake manifold because the bolts were nubs.

 

Promasters don't have engine covers, so the water rusts those fasteners.  All other 3.6s have engine covers.

The Dodge dealer had intake manifolds in stock.  Curious.

And here I thought I had it bad. That's tough! Is the upper intake Promaster specific? Also, feel free to chime in with any hot tips or inside info. I am a Promaster neewb. 

Pretty sure it's the same intake, FWD and RWD, in everything.  The EGR models are different, but that's a recent development.

Today it was sunny, 40F and a great day to work in the driveway. Prior to dog walking I set up the ozone machine to hopefully ozone-ate the ductwork. 

I let this professional setup run while I did some home and garage maintenance etc. 

After returning the ozone generator I started back to the task of taking out parts keeping the engine in the van. The rear cat was a bit of a fight but it came out eventually, I did have to chop the wires on the secondary o2 sensor since the plug was melt welded solid. 

Another thing to sort out for the new engine. Also had a problem with #1 injector "Red Mopar, non-release clip" It broke instead of moving out of my way and that took more time and effort than was ideal. 

I did end up getting all the connectors unplugged and flopped the harness out of the way. Then I went for the TQ bolts. I was not sure if the engine was able to turn. It does, and that made things much nicer and less messy than dealing with it siezed. Took out all but one bell housing bolts and loosened the last one. The engine and trans immediately made a gap. 27mm for the crank bolt. 

Hooked up my crane and held up the engine. The motor mount uses E something bolts in a size I don't have but my 12pt 14mm worked. With the motor mount out it was time to remove the final bell housing bolt. Came out without too much fuss!

Sometimes you find something nice buried under a thick, nasty layer of grime. Clearly the Pentastar oil cooler leak has been in full effect.  Mopar reman trans. Cool. Wonder  when? Makes me more interested in a vehicle report. 

Found two pair of bolts and two nuts from my box-o-bolts and mounted the dead engine on the stand. Now it is sitting right next to the dead VQ40de. 

I'm done for the day and will call the junkyard tomorrow  to see what they have for me. Fingers crossed for low(ish) miles and budget friendly. There are a couple donor vehicles that might be options as well. 

GoLucky said:

Today it was sunny, 40F and a great day to work in the driveway. Prior to dog walking I set up the ozone machine to hopefully ozone-ate the ductwork. 

I let this professional setup run while I did some home and garage maintenance etc. 

After returning the ozone generator I started back to the task of taking out parts keeping the engine in the van. The rear cat was a bit of a fight but it came out eventually, I did have to chop the wires on the secondary o2 sensor since the plug was melt welded solid. 

Another thing to sort out for the new engine. Also had a problem with #1 injector "Red Mopar, non-release clip" It broke instead of moving out of my way and that took more time and effort than was ideal. 

I did end up getting all the connectors unplugged and flopped the harness out of the way. Then I went for the TQ bolts. I was not sure if the engine was able to turn. It does, and that made things much nicer and less messy than dealing with it siezed. Took out all but one bell housing bolts and loosened the last one. The engine and trans immediately made a gap. 27mm for the crank bolt. 

Hooked up my crane and held up the engine. The motor mount uses E something bolts in a size I don't have but my 12pt 14mm worked. With the motor mount out it was time to remove the final bell housing bolt. Came out without too much fuss!

Sometimes you find something nice buried under a thick, nasty layer of grime. Clearly the Pentastar oil cooler leak has been in full effect.  Mopar reman trans. Cool. Wonder  when? Makes me more interested in a vehicle report. 

 

Found two pair of bolts and two nuts from my box-o-bolts and mounted the dead engine on the stand. Now it is sitting right next to the dead VQ40de. 

I'm done for the day and will call the junkyard tomorrow  to see what they have for me. Fingers crossed for low(ish) miles and budget friendly. There are a couple donor vehicles that might be options as well. 

 

Dude.  You need paid to be a technician.  You are soing the lords work in cold weather!  You are way faster then me in my 65 deg garage.  Nice work.  Love to see the progress!

^Agree totally! Based on his pace of work, I expect this thing to be running and driving again by next weekend, haha. 

Love reading about the vans.

You must be one heckuva bicycle mechanic. 

GoLucky said:

Sometimes you find something nice buried under a thick, nasty layer of grime. Clearly the Pentastar oil cooler leak has been in full effect.  Mopar reman trans. Cool. Wonder  when? Makes me more interested in a vehicle report. 

The Grand Caravan/Town and Country owners in my circle of friends (myself included) have gotten around 80k to 110k miles out of the transmissions our vehicles came with. Not quite Intrepid level "transmission made of cardboard" but not exactly great either.

So one of these transmissions racking up almost 400k miles would be surprising.

OHSCrifle said:

Love reading about the vans.

You must be one heckuva bicycle mechanic. 

It's possible that his old man is a television repairman and has an ultimate set of tools.  

Thanks all for the encouragement and kind words. I enjoy fixing things and feel slow when I work on cars. Generally it takes me more time to do everything than it would in a proper shop.

 Bikes are SO MUCH faster, and my setup is near ideal and purpose built. I can earn a living working on bikes by doing as many repairs as quickly as I can do them well. It isn't exactly like a book rate program but it does incentivize me to get things done. 

My Dad has repaired televisions and near everything else I can think of. Certainly a handy guy. He was for 40+ years the property manager at the retirement community where I grew up. He has, out of necessity, replaced van engines. (VW air and water boxer guy) But his main thing is woodworking building and home renovations/rebuilds. We compliment each other in this regard. 

Photo of my B3500 extended van in the driveway next to the Promaster. 

Ok, the Promaster is on jackstands, but it is still huge compared to the Dodge. The lengths are similar but width and height are obviously different. 

Just heard from the junkyard and they are going to have a <130k engine out for me on Monday for $1,000  Of the options I have in my area this seems the best. I was looking at one in Missoula for $800 but that is 4hrs drive round trip and it has 175k on it.  

In reply to RandolphCarter :

I've got a '13 Grand Caravan with a transmission that makes noise and has for years. Not my favorite, sure wish there was an easy manual swap option. 

Many, that puts things into perspective.  I know the Promaster is pretty ratty and beat, but dang if it doesn't work better for your 'all in one' van needs, more than the Dodge does even.

Have you considered keeping it and flipping the Dodge, or is this one just too far destroyed to be enjoyed by you?

In reply to golfduke :

Keeping it is definitely an option. I like standing up in the back, and that a bed to fit me can fit width wise back there. I am not dead set in a particular direction and think that the fixes will be appropriate whether I keep or sell it. 

Mostly as a thought exercise, what alternative drivetrain ideas would you like to see in a Promaster. Frame rails are about 39.5" wide... Ls4/4t80e? Other manufacturers minivan powertrains? Hmmmmm....

Junkyard engine day for the Promaster. To get ready for the bundle of joy coming home I wanted to have a wooden skid for it to ride in on the way home. First the front cat had to come off of the dead engine. It is in the way of making a skid and I know for a fact the junkyard is not sending the replacement engine with them. The upper two bolts snapped off in the head and the lower two rounded off. This morning I was able to pry against the cat and my wrench in a way to get the forward one loose then out. The lower bolts go to a bracket that I was able to hit with a drift to pivot enough on the one remaining bolt to remove the cat. I hit the stubborn bolt with a wire wheel to lessen the rust. 
Threw on a big nut from my fasteners box. Looks like early 2000's GM. Then I shot mig wire in there. 

Out. 

Made some modifications to the skid I used for the Nissan VQ40de engines related to the NV1500 project. 

Ended up nice and stable. Drove out to meet the replacement engine. There she is. All wrapped up for the weather. 

Paid $1000 and got loaded. 

Stopped for some additional engine stand hardware and then unloaded at the house. 

Many things are the same and there are a few different pieces too. The replacement engine also saw some damage from the removal process. They aren't super careful there and to be fair anything that survives outside the long block is a bonus. So far it looks like the front of the engine is where things got beat up. Bent the oil pan lip. 

Cracked off nipple on the water crossover pipe. 

This is a shame since the water pump feels great; outlet tube bent and came out with a pull. 

Chips in tensioner pulley. Meh condition anyway. 

I had planned to order a bunch of parts for the replacement engine and that will still happen once the rockers I am after come back into stock. I removed a few of the obviously different pieces and will start some tear down and disassembly for cleaning next. A few more broken exhaust bolts to deal with as well. Stoked to have the engine on the stand. 

You're replacing the rockers?  Sweet.  You really should also replace the lifters while you are in there.  What happens is, the lifters gum up and stick, this causes them to not pump up when they are supposed to when lash opens up at different temperatures.  This is what causes the rockers' rollers to get beat up and eventually take out a camshaft.  Roller followers do NOT like having lash!  There are updated lifters.

If you're already doing this, sorry for the mansplaining.

Don't feel bad about the water pump, they are a high failure rate item and so is that crossover.  There are like three or four different water pump bolt patterns but I think you only really have an issue with getting the wrong one with longitudinal applications.  Mind the bolt lengths as there are a few that are different.

While I am spending your money, the thermostat is probably the most common failure item next to the oil cooler.  In hindsight, it may actually come with that crossover.

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

Input appreciated, very open to the advice and explanations! It seems like doing the rocker/lifter job on the engine stand is about 1000% easier than in the van. I imagine either myself, or a potential buyer, will appreciate the job being done. I'm trying to keep track of the fasteners. Took this picture of the water crossover: 

And labeled s and L on the water pump. 

The long bolts have black plastic near the head. I'm assuming it's some sealing thing. Ok to reuse? Or will the replacement parts have new bolts? 

The plastic sleeves are for alignment, I think.  That way they can have a close tolerance fastener that won't rust the shank to the part.  At least, that's my assumption, everyone's doing it nowadays.  If one or two go missing it isn't the end of the world.

Retrospectively, if they are only on the long bolts, and the short bolts go through smaller diameter holes, that may be an easy way to tell what goes where.  The sleeves usually stick in the holes instead of coming out with the bolt, too.

There is a fairly cheap special tool to hold the chains and sprockets in place so you can take the cams out without pulling the cover.  River link It wedges the chain guides and attaches the sprockets to the front of the head.

We did so many cams at one place that we had two of these kits so we wouldn't be held up   Change your oil, people!

I don't know if this engine allows removing the rockers with the cams in place.  I know you can on other people's 3.6 V6s...

I have violated more promaster vans than most. We do all the collision repair for a 300 amazon van depot and let me tell you they smash them up.

on replacing that door check check out door strap pro. Great secondary solution around 150 bucks. 

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

There is a fairly cheap special tool to hold the chains and sprockets in place so you can take the cams out without pulling the cover.  River link It wedges the chain guides and attaches the sprockets to the front of the head.

We did so many cams at one place that we had two of these kits so we wouldn't be held up   Change your oil, people!

I don't know if this engine allows removing the rockers with the cams in place.  I know you can on other people's 3.6 V6s...

You have to lift the cam; my own van just started the pentastar tick at 165k with religious oil changes on full synthetic. And my trans is still great. 

In reply to Norma66-Brent :

That strap... That is a good idea. My idea was to make a new bracket for the stock stop, but we will see. You probably see it all with all them company owned vans!