Jeepers, What Have I Gotten Myself Into Now - Or, What the Jeep is This?

While I was visiting my parents for Thanksgiving, we took a side trip to my dad's cousin's house to visit with a few other relatives and friends.  While out in the shop, over a few beers, dad's cousin starts talking about this Jeep his just bought, and how he loves it but he knows nothing about how to fix stuff on it and it needs...things.  

You proabbly guessed how this goes.  One thing leads to another and...

This shows up in my driveway today:

It's a 1977 CJ5, 4 wheel drive, manual locking hubs, 4 speed stick, and the ubiquitous Jeep half-dozen under the hood.  I barely manage to back the thing off the trailer it runs so badly, stall it several times while attempting to get it around to the shop, but, finally, after much embarrassment, succeed in getting it into the shop and on the lift.

And realize just how short this thing is.  I was only barely able to swing the lift arms under the frame between the wheels.  I had to roll it forward o get the front arms under, and roll it back to get the rear arms under.  I don't think I could lay down on the floor between the front and rear wheels.  

But eventually we got it all figured out, and I was able to start poking around underneath with my son, my dad, and his cousin, and seeing just what needs to be done to the big urnch monster.

Here's the best part, they're as simple as air cooled VWs, as in not much to break,  everything is available, and cheap. If it's not running right, probably fuel. If the carb is bad, just buy a new one, etc. Don't overthink, or over restore it, get it running, and stopping, then enjoy it. 

CJ5 was the orphan of the 70s/80s Jeeps because of it's short wheelbase.  The only answer is to cut it in the middle, extended the wheelbase, tube frame it, and make a kick ass rock crawler buggy out of it.

I second what Steve said. 
 

Love a simple old jeep. Get good and greasy and have fun. 

I appreciate the CW McCall reference in the tags :)

The AMC six is a great engine. Clean up the carb and throw fresh ignition stuff at it and it will probably be good to go. 

The body looks pretty clean, but I see tread plate under the door opening.  That could be hiding some rot which would be pretty typical for these. 
 

First, let me voice my extreme displeasure at the decision to remove the "Edit" functionality after a certain period of time.  I hate my typos with the fire of a thousand Stanley Steamers and don't like that I can't fix them the next day.

Last night in the garage, the littlest VCH got his turn running the lift for the first time.  He was just barely able to push the lever up.  I may have to lower it some for him.

Dad's cousin had noted a few major issues with the Big Urnch Monster, or 'BUM', that he wanted to have addressed to make it driveable.  In order of importance:

- Steering was very wandery

- Rear axle was claimed to be "welded" from prior owner, so it was almost undriveable on the street

- Choke was manual, difficult to start, runs poorly.  Wants automatic choke

There's a few other issues that I'll tend to, but those are the big hitters.  The rear axle in particular concerned me, as "welded" could be any number of frightening possibilities.  With the BUM in the air, I spun off the diff cover bolts...and found the diff cover heavily RTV'd to the housing.  

Note to self:  previous owner was an idiot.

After some persuasion, Dad watching with breath held, his cousin holding the drain pan beneath the differential, and Mini-Me holding the drop light, the cover came off, dropping it's load of gear fluid into the pan.  A big sigh of relief was heaved.

This, I can fix.  New spider gears and the rear should function normally again.  The ring and pinion looked good, no noticeable play, and a good wear pattern on the teeth.  

Now for my stupid, Jeep-ignorant question:  What rear is this?  It looks very Dana-ish, much like the 30 in my Volvo Amazon, but possibly bigger.  I think I read somewhere it may be a Dana 44.  Anyone here know for sure?  Is it like the Dana 30, where you have to spread the housing to get the ring gear and carrier out?  I have a spreading tool I used on the Volvo rear.  

My jeep is a little bit rusty, but I'm pretty sure it SHOULD* be a Dana 44 with single shafts.  I think they switched from 2 piece to 1 piece in '75.  Either way, as long as it's original equipment, it should most definitely be a D44. 

Looks like a fun find!  I miss my YJ sometimes... 

It looks like a D44 from the pictures I've seen on the internet.  Looks like they switched to the AMC Model 20 in 77, but I may have the year wrong.  

EDIT:  Correction on the year, it's actually a 1974 CJ5.  

It's probably a Dana. 
 

Steering is traditional box o' balls and linkages. It may have a track bar on the front that needs attention. I am more familiar with YJ and TJ stuff. In any case, fresh tie rod ends and bushings will probably help a bunch.

It doesn't appear to be jacked up too high which is good. Lots of terrible geometry happens when people lift these into orbit. Obviously, there are fixes for that, but it's usually a compromise compared to stock. Worst case, it may need a new/rebuilt steering box. 
 

If it wobbles, the shocks can be part of problem. Bilstein shocks work great on the later ones. 

In reply to tester (Forum Supporter) :

Good info, thanks.  It has a steering damper, which appears to be as old as Jesus.  There's also a lot of general sketchiness going on up front, some from wear, some from botched repairs.  P/O claims to have lifted it, but I don't really see any signs of a lift kit.  It does have some very fancy and big tires and wheels.  There does NOT seem to be a track bar, though.

The shocks all point the same direction, which I imagine is stock, although from what I know about suspension design, is also terrible.  But, like I told dad's cousin, these things will never handle like his modern pickup truck.  

New shocks all around will likely improve matters.  The ones on there do not look too old, but they have a general not-so-fresh feeling about them.

These things are basically a 4 wheel drive model A. So yeah, they drive like an old car. You either enjoy that or you don't. LOL 

The tires fill the wheel wells ok. That tells me it isn't lifted much. It might have +1" leaf springs? 
 

My dad and his cousin hit the road for home this morning around 8AM.  They had good weather for the trip down yesterday, and we'd been monitoring the forecast and it loked like they'd just have  abunch of rain for the drive home today.  No suck luck.

Around 8:30 the texts from my dad started (his cousin drove the whole way; it was his truck and trailer).  First there was a wreck and a detour.  Then they hit snow north of Gettysburg.  Which got worse, as snow tends to, as they progressed north.  Eventually, heading up out of Williamsport the road was two tracks in the snow.  My dad is a very nervous passenger, and his cousin used to drive snow plows for a living and thinks he's still driving one.  Imagine two seventy-plus year old guys bombing north in a pickup, towing an empty trailer, in blinding snow; the driver doing 65 mph and the passenger with both hands and one foot on whatever oh E36 M3 handles they could find.  

They're north of Mansfield now, and latest report is the roads are better.  The worst of the hills and curves are behind them now, and the remnants of this winter storm Finn seem to be trending towards liquid rather than frozen precip.

Dad:  "Had I known it was going to be like this, I never would have gone on this trip"

Mom: "If your father doesn't make it home in one piece, I'm going to kill his cousin"

Dana 44, probably not many splines on the shafts if it original. Maybe 19 splines.

Engine should probably be a 230 but a 258 may have been swapped in.

Please tell me plans for this vehicle include hood side decals that spell out "Urnch" in a 70s font and earth tone color scheme.

You made me look. Wheelbase on this thing is 83.5". My stumpy little Land Rover is 88".

With the tires on the ground, have an assistant turn the steering wheel back and forth while you inspect the steering box.  Check for input vs output play, frame flex, steering shaft worn joints etc.  All ball joints could be worn, get all that tightened up and it will drive like a leaf sprung 50 year old tractor.  These are low speed vehicles safe at low speeds, you guide them in the direction that you prefer but don't really steer them. 

With the both axles located by shackles and bushings make sure those are ok, they can also contribute to a wandering feel.

Based on the hub to bottom of the body distance I would guess that it has stock replacement springs.  Can't help but notice how the wheels don't droop much on the lift, it needs to haul 1500lbs to get some flex out of them.

Appreciate all the insight.  Likes all around.

Last night I pulled both axles out.  No pictures because I forgot my camera.  Luckily Dana axles are pretty similar, so most of the tools and procedures for working on the B.U.M. are not too different than for a Volvo Amazon.  The axles have 29 splines on them, and seem pretty stout.

Going to hook up the diffy spreader tonight and see if I can extricate the ring gear and carrier and begin the spider gear replacement process.  

There will be more pictures, I promise.  There's lots more other fun stuff I've discovered on this rig.  

Keith Tanner said:

You made me look. Wheelbase on this thing is 83.5". My stumpy little Land Rover is 88".

Yep.  The "long" wheelbase CJ7 is only 93 or 94".  Only a few inches more than an NA miata.  

IIRC, there was a CJ5 that ran 24 Hours of LeMons once.  LeMons minimum wheelbase is 82", so it qualified, barely.  

You probably know this already, but this is an "intermediate" CJ5, made from 72-75 only. Some parts are specific, but still not too hard to find.

Could be a 232 I-6 or a 258 I-6. Normal tune-up parts and a carb rebuild should help, but ignition systems varied a lot from year to year, and are mostly unreliable. Should be a BorgWarner T-18 transmission with the 4.02 first, and a Dana 20 T/C. Dana 44 rear, Dana 30 front. Don't scoff at the RTV yet, good gaskets are pricey and still leak half the time.

What size are those tires? I'm guessing 31/10.5 maybe, with not much lift if any. Looks like the factory 6-leaf springs to me. Might have longer shackles. Check the frame around the steering box, cracks are common, especially with oversize tires. Alignment (camber/caster) can only be done with shims. Like somebody already said, steering is done by suggestion, and you may not like the reply.

Fun fact: the drag coef on these is 0.8. Most houses are better than that.

In reply to llysgennad :

The P/O put 33 x 12.5 on 17" wheels on this thing.  There are bolt-on spacers, look to be about 1-1/4" or 1-1/2" to move the wheels and tires outboard, or correct for the wheel offset.  

Oh yes, there are issues around the steering box...

That looks fun...

In reply to llysgennad :

My father, who was an accountant his whole life, took one look at that and said "That looks like E36 M3".

Congrats, Dad, you're qualified to be a CWA...

I ordered some new spider gears for the rear axle; while waiting on those parts I decided to tackle the front suspension issues.  The main concern was the steering situation seen in the above picture, and below:

This is where I'm confused, and need help.  I'm being told this is a 1974 CJ5, but this steering gearbox and brackets look like what's being sold online as '76 and newer.  Someone bodged in some E36 M3ty welds and berkeleyed with the leaf spring shackle mount over here.  So I'm not sure what's going on.  

I got the steering box out last night- only 3 of 4 bolts were even installed - and have the leaf spring disconnected at the front and the axle being held up by a ratchet strap.  So now I need to figure out what I have, what can be reused, and what I need to buy.  

Love this thing so much. Looks like a pretty rust free tub to start with. Too bad about the botches, but that's what old jeep ownership tends to be like sadly.

What non-modern wheels are going on it?