LS197. A build thread.

In reply to DILYSI Dave :

I dig the almost-symmetry of your idler plate design. And I LOL'd at "the first dry sump tank ever made."

A little more tweaking. A single bracket from one block does look nicer. I'm unlikely to find a 2.5" x 5" x 6" chunk of aluminum in the scrap bin, but oh well. Did a bit of lightening on the both the blue and green bracket too. And finally, got the turnbuckle both closer to the front and more in-line with the belt. Ended up extending the idler plate a bit to make a place to land the other end of the turnbuckle that I like. 

And then for some physical work to close out the weekend versus computer, let's get the engine breather system nailed down.

First off was poking a hole in the valley cover -

Flip it over, mill off what was left of the blank PCV bung, and then let my helper help me tap a 3/4" NPT hole -

Took a bit of clearancing of the fitting, but after a few rounds of "Let's hope the belt sander doesn't find the internal passageway", the fitting, vacuum regulator, and the intake are all behaving nicely together. I'm pleased with how tucked out of the way, yet still accessible, that turned out.

Final step, now that the vacuum side of managing crankcase pressure is handled, let's put in provisions for if the pressure ever swings the other way. Ideally, the crankcase remains under vacuum and these are never used, but should that fail to be the case, these should at least help keep my seals from burping the pressure. I was a little leary of them just venting to atmosphere, but then I decided that having an easily visible tattletale (Why is my valvecover shmangy?!?!) couldn't hurt. That's what I'm telling myself at least.

If the "pressure ever swings the other way", wouldnt that be because of oil pump failure on a dry sump system?

gsettle said:

If the "pressure ever swings the other way", wouldnt that be because of oil pump failure on a dry sump system?

Yeah, my belief is that it should be a never-event.  But pop-offs are a fairly common component on the systems none the less.  Positive pressure could indicate a failing scavenge pump, excessive blow-by, etc.  

I didn't find the need compelling enough to buy the $150 one that is made for it, but since I needed to plug these holes in the valve covers anyway, I figured that putting the $3 McMaster pieces in couldn't hurt either.  

More work over the holidays. Decided to go ahead and go down the path of updating the block for the dry sump stuff, and get the seals freshened up along the way. Pulled the original pan, pump, and pickup. Got it in the air and pulled the rear cover off and all surfaces cleaned up. Fell back in love with my parts washer. I'm having to force myself to not scope-creep. The plan for phase 1 is an internally stock engine and use my bandwidth to get it in the car and running with all of the new ancillaries. Once that's proven and probably with a season or two under it's belt, then pull the engine back out and build it.

Replaced the RMS and cover gasket and replaced to OEM plastic barbell with an aftermarket aluminum one, then buttoned up the rear of the engine.

Next up is blocking off the old oil galleries and opening up new ones. Here you can see the feed and return holes for the OE oil filter, plugged with freeze plugs. Also seen is the adapter that screws into the block and allows the external pump to feed it.

I still need one more plug for the front of the block before I can re-seal the front. I also need to figure out windage tray, hardware, etc. I set the dry sump pan on enough to figure out that it isn't making it to the mating surface before hitting something. So, need to figure out what that something is and then navigate that.

I did some test fitting of the 3D prints for the serpentine setup and I like most of it but need to re-work some, so I'm also in the process of doing that.

Finally, I think I figured out what I want to do with the control arm pickup points on the subframe, and have parts coming in for that. But the basic plan is cut off the giant ears for the OE bushing and replace all of that with 1.25" spherical bearings and housings. That should accommodate the rear stub on the LCA's with minimal modification, and open up a fair bit of room for engine, header, etc. Plus, sphericals are cool.

Look at checkmate valve covers.  Think they may be the hot ticket for the dry sump/pulling vacuum on crankcase 

Love this build! I know that you aren't there yet but do you anticipate starter clearance requiring trans tunnel mods?

madmrak351 said:

Love this build! I know that you aren't there yet but do you anticipate starter clearance requiring trans tunnel mods?

Absolutely. The tunnel and firewall are going to be invaded. TBD to what degree. My plan is to get the drivetrain put together, mount the new subframe to it to set the relationship there, then drop the old drivetrain and subframe, lower the car over the new stuff, and cut where necessary. 

I forgot that you are looking at 12" setback. I am sure that will be a factor....

We're back.  Finally made a decision on rod bearings and bolts.  Someone suggested installing the new bearings with old bolts to check clearance with plastigage, and then doing final install with new bolts.  That gets me new bearings, confirmed clearances, and new bolts that are on their first pull.  So I did that.  Ordered a set of Clevite on size bearings and went through the process, figuring if I needed to adjust anything I could introduce some +.001 or -.001 shells.  No need.  Crank looked great, and everything checked out on clearance.  And really, the old rod bearings looked fine.  Would have been good to send it, but the $100 for new bearings and bolts is some cheap piece of mind.  

With that done I could finally get the front cover on, get the damper on, and do final install on the pan.  Ended up needing to do some clearancing on the pan to let the block oil feed line play nice with the block inlet adapter.  a few minutes with the die grinder had that dealt with.  

Here it is with damper on, pan on, and first test fit of the oil pump actually hooked up to something.  It worked great.  Super pleased with how that came together and giddy at the ground clearance.  

Head on, you can't even see the oil pan.  :)

Another view.

Here you can see the fitting I think I want for the block inlet.  It hangs a tiny bit lower than the oil pan, which I don't love, but it's the best I've found so far.  Bit of a goofy one, as most of the oil system is -12 stuff, but the inlet uses a -10 male.  Took some searching, but Fragola makes this piece that is a sweeping 90 degree -12 Hose to -10 female fitting.  Keeps me from having to add adapters and the sweeping 90* is nice for flow.   I may see if I can find a stubby 90 of the same configuration and try to get back an inch of ground clearance, but it's not bad as-is.  



 

Another look at the pump and drive setup.  

Finally, the cool kids say that it's worthwhile to add steam ports to the heads.  These allow pockets in the head that normally can trap steam to vent it back into the cooling system.  From the factory the front two are connected to each other and the rear ones are blocked.  I grabbed four fittings so that I can vent all of them.  I'm far enough off the beaten path that the off the shelf stuff is unlikely to fit, but I did go ahead and source these that I can then run some -3 lines from, and back to a low pressure port in the cooling system.  Probably going to give forming some SS hard lines a shot.  And they indeed seem to allow an otherwise trapped place to vent as this thing has been dry for months.  I installed them, then turned it over for the bearing work, and it dumped another quart of coolant on the floor.  Of course.  :)

So, engine is as freshened as it's going to get, new seals throughout, and it's now time to start adding parts.  Next will probably be bouncing back and forth between engine management wiring and more serpentine stuff, with a side of more plumbing.  All of which are going to be needed for the eventual "start it on the stand" step.  

This is looking great! Ground clearance is impressive. What valve covers are you using. They are the style that eliminates the coil brackets, correct? 

madmrak351 said:

This is looking great! Ground clearance is impressive. What valve covers are you using. They are the style that eliminates the coil brackets, correct? 

Thanks!

Valve covers are Holley P/N 241-92, for dry sump systems.  No oil fill hole, and direct mount coils.  They come raw, I powdercoated them.  

Been busy for the past month earning money versus spending it, but I spent some time this weekend trying to nail down next steps on wiring.

I want to go ahead and add the flex fuel sensor, just because. Dunno if I will throw E85 at it, but I want fuel temp regardless, and the flex fuel sensor gives that in addition to letting me play with alcohol if I want to. Of course adding a sensor means mounting it. Here's what I think I've come up with -



3D printed part that slides onto the end of the fuel rail and engages the flex fuel sensor, and then a coupling that engages with the original fuel rail quick connect and the one on the flex fuel sensor. That's printing now so a test fit should happen this evening. I'm printing it to hopefully snap into place as Continental and God intended, but I did go ahead and add zip tie provisions to my bracket because racecar.

I have also, I think, nailed down my sensor and connector needs for the most part. I'm certainly up for input / checking my work on this though....

You'll note that WBO2 is still blank. The Haltech is compatible with (and has one onboard controller for) either the LSU 4.9 and NTK. Which do I want? Also, do I want both banks? Why? It means another O2 and another controller that will talk to the ECU via CAN. No biggie if it's worthwhile, but it's the first time I've dealt with something with two banks.

The boring update:

I maybe (hopefully?) have stopped the water leak. These clips hold in the cowl trim, and the gaskets around them had disintegrated. So I removed them, cleaned everything up, cut some new gaskets out of some butyl rubber tape, and sent it. It seems to have survived two decent storms without any puddles forming. Fingers crossed.



And because they were off, the wipers got a rattle can restoration.

The less boring updates:

I'm collecting and fitting the sensors discussed in the last update. Here's the fuel pressure sensor that screws on to the OE maintenance port on the fuel rail. I wasn't sure about hanging something off of that fitting and figured I'd want to fab up a brace, but once installed it feels fine.




And here is the flex fuel sensor installed via the coupling from Deutchworks and the bracket I designed and printed. It's nice and secure, tucks in behind the intake manifold nicely, and even presents the plug and fuel inlet in a useful direction.



Finally, we get to some spaghetti I need to deal with. The pump and pan as configured in the ARCA cars were a few inches further apart from each other. This means that the hoses I have are too long. I installed everything to see if it was even possible, and it is. But I don't like it.



So I again went to virtual world and it looks like I can shorten all three hoses, reuse all of the pan fittings and 2 of the 3 pump fittings, buy one new pump fitting and 3 new crimps, and have something way tidier. Now I just need to find someone local who can crimp BMRS lines.



I've got a tentative date in April with my wiring guy and my goal is to have everything in such a state that we can knock out a harness and fire it on the stand in a weekend. That means finishing the dry sump stuff and getting the accessories nailed down now has a clock on it.

I went with the same fuel pressure sensor after going back and forth between that and the silicone filled antivibration version. Will be interested to see if you have any issues with it.

Shavarsh said:

I went with the same fuel pressure sensor after going back and forth between that and the silicone filled antivibration version. Will be interested to see if you have any issues with it.

I never even saw another version.  There were plenty of ways to get a fuel pressure sensor on the end of a stack of adapters, but this was the only one (to my surprise) that I found to screw directly onto the maintenance port.  Got a link to the one you're talking about, just for curiosity sake?

https://lowdoller-motorsports.com/collections/pressure-sensors/products/0-100-psi-pressure-sensor-pn-8990101

Hmm, after reading through it, maybe I misunderstood the purpose of the filled sensor, might be more for increasing accuracy and less for vibration resistance.

Edit:

My bad ignore my post, didn't realize you are using the female threaded version.

Shavarsh said:

Edit:

My bad ignore my post, didn't realize you are using the female threaded version.

Consider yourself ignored.  ;)

Yeah, I used the one that screws right onto the port.  I was surprised such a thing was not ubiquitous, but this was the only one I found that does it.  

Sensors.... Sensors.... SENSORS!!!! Come on down to Sensors-R-Us for all the sensors!!!!!

Flex fuel sensor was shown before. It is now joined by a couple more in this pic. The OEM oil pressure has been replaced by an oil pressure and temp sensor. In between that and the manifold is where the valley plate was drilled and tapped for a crankcase vacuum sensor.



On coolant, the OE sensor is going to remain as installed from the factory on the driver's side cylinder head. The passenger side typically has that port plugged, but that has now been replaced with a coolant temperature and pressure sensor.



Still a bit to do on collecting wiring supplies and nailing down dry sump details before we're ready to wire it in the next month or so, but progress is progress.

With the final mods to the valley plate complete I bolted it back on and then the only thing keeping me from bolting the intake manifold on was the need to deal with the steam ports before I did. So that was what I dove into for a few hours this past weekend. I used the -3 port adapters from Earls, and formed my own stainless hard lines for plumbing them back to the water pump.

First up was connecting the rear ports to the front. I wasn't entirely sure I'd be able to do this under the manifold, but it worked out well. The Motion Raceworks kit I originally planned to use would not play nice with the L92 manifold in this regard, so being able to make my homebrew stuff behave was good.



With the back-to front's dealt with I then needed to tee the fronts together and route it to the water pump. Pretty please with how this all came together. It's an order-of-operations puzzle, and I finally found my stride berkeleyed up no additional ones after the first three...



Final fit check with the manifold (complete with the throttle body decoration courtesy of my wife) in place....

you do nice work.

AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) said:

you do nice work.

Ditto! Very nice... I love this.

Curious about coolant pressure sensor though... I've never heard of this being tracked. Can  the pressure go higher than what ever the rad cap is rated for?

In reply to gsettle :

Ive used them to track a popped cooling system. Generally a temp sensor won't track air temp and designate overheating due to no coolant

gsettle said:

Ditto! Very nice... I love this.

Curious about coolant pressure sensor though... I've never heard of this being tracked. Can  the pressure go higher than what ever the rad cap is rated for?

It shouldn't for sure.  I'm less confident on if I can put parameters in there that would give a high pressure warning than a low pressure one.  In theory, pressure above X = head gasket failure.  Whether that can be seen in reality is still TBD.  I am pretty confident that a low pressure trigger could be useful though.  Loss of a hose, loss of a pump, etc. would all tell me I've got a problem before it gets a chance to overheat.

Not sure I'd go through the trouble to add one to an existing build, but since I'm scratch building a harness and have the available I/O, I figure why not.  This is definitely on the "learning exercise" end of the spectrum though.