Take your time
Take your time
So, my end game is a street legal-ish race car that was incredibly safe, cheap to operate, easy to maintain, and would be able to do full days of two drivers at tracks like vir without maintenance or worry. It needs to be legal for hillclimb as well, and easy enough to drive I could hand it to friends and family to use. I also want to do it on the cheap, as im a social worker and my wifes an elementary school teacher
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Its a tall order.
I had gotten the AMC back to rebuild. I hadn't done much of anything, as to get it where I wanted required full frame rails, suspension swap, rust repair, and adapting circle track equipment in. it was going to be a huge job of years.
I had been thinking lately that if I had to do it again, I wouldn't have started with the AMC, id have started with an ex cup car or something. These thoughts were inspired by a few guys setting up ex circle track cars for hill climbs and road-racing on GRM, and the fact that its been a day dream since high school.
Talking with my dad last Friday night at the cruise night, I mentioned it to him. He made the comment that I should just keep my eyes open and see if I find a good deal while making up my mind on the AMC.
Ny dark, I had found a VERY prominisng lead on facebook and messaged him.
Screenshot_20220423-190727_Facebook by Michael Crawford, on Flickr
turned out he was one of the guys that runs with M4Them with the classic stock cars. He cut his own price to 1200 out of the gate, and he wasn't terribly far away. I listed the AMC for break even pricing, and scheduled a time to go see it. He sent me many more pictures, but had bought it in a parts lot from the pit crew training school and had no history or idea what it was other than a Taurus body with a Toyota wrap. I just saw the cage, and truck arms, and front suspension and fell in love.
received_734530364400278 by Michael Crawford, on Flickr
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Since I know less than nothing about nascar stuff, I sent everything to my friend Steve for review. He said the chassis looks square, and could be setup for road-race rather easily.
So Thursday I took out of work a few hours early. Traveled to huntersville to get the closest uhaul to get a trailer at, then to Matthews. We got the car loaded up, he gave me some spare parts like the brakes and another 8 wheels, and sent me on my way. This was my first ever time using a uhual trailer, using my truck to haul a car on a trailer, and trailering (not tow dollying) all by myself. It was pucker inducing alone, and add into that the rush hour traffic starting and GPS taking me all narrow back roads, and I was terrified. But I did it, just took my time and let my head and truck cool off frequently. It was mind boggling to look at every time i stopped though, and many people gave me thumbs up.
20220428_150917 by Michael Crawford, on Flickr
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when I got home, I was faced with getting the car down my street and into my driveway. This required baacking the trailer down an alley and a sharp turn into my driveway. I had never done it. Anywhere.
But, I DID IT. Took me 20 minutes, but got it done. Called my wife, daughter, and stu over to help push stuff and spot, but we got it done. Then I got in it for the first time.
IMG_5293 by Michael Crawford, on Flickr
much like the scene from tommy boy, its a fat guy in a little coat getting in and out. This is an issue.
But one for another day!!
I went to take the trailer back, and wound up doing crisis calls for some troubled teens at the curch, somoe more work for my dayjob (did I mention I was on the phone doing mental health work the whoe time I was towing too?), and crawled into bed about 11.
friday was a super long day in the saddle, but I confirmed sale of AMC and delivery. And started trying to sell the body off. Since high school shop class, I have dreamed about a duster race car with slicks hanging out of the fenders, big cage, boom tube exhaust, etc. I doodled it on everything, but could never bring myself to do it to my 70 DD I had at the time and still have. Considered it a pipe dream. However, I now own a nascar with window openings too small to use, a body thats too rough to put on track due to structural integrity concerns, and skills that high school me never dreamed existed. I was able to sell the body for $200 has garage art, and keep all the ducts, lexan, window braces, etc. mind you, I did this before actual measurements or anything....
anyway, yesterday I pulled the car outside, got out the superclean and hose, and started cleaning. See, I hate getting dirty. And a good visual inspection and identification of what I bought is step one with every project. This one cleaned up fairly ok, all things considered. Id needs more, but that will be later.
So, what I got in a stock car is what I believe to be a 94-95 vintage spam or napa #9 chassis. Look at the pedal box (single master, mecganical clutch, 4 bolt column attachemnt, stock appearing pedals) to one of the 94-95 t nirds I found on the internet. Also, the cage tube layout.
received_331398688905867 by Michael Crawford, on Flickr
201900_Interior_Web by Michael Crawford, on Flickr
the reason I think #9 is that I found that written in sharpie on the underside in a few places, and the napa blue interior paint. I haven't found any stamping or numbers otherwise.
Regardless, after its stint as a cup car, I believe it was re-bodied as the new 99 taurus car, and used as a show car for a while. Then, it was sent to coach hortons for pit crew training.
So, more pictures of what I got (photo dump time!)
20220428_203558 by Michael Crawford, on Flickr
20220428_203603 by Michael Crawford, on Flickr
20220428_203551 by Michael Crawford, on Flickr
20220428_203608 by Michael Crawford, on Flickr
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20220428_203626 by Michael Crawford, on Flickr
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20220428_203740 by Michael Crawford, on Flickr
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so I then began disassembly a little further. First was pulling the windows for better access. The lexan is mighty rough, but may be able to be reused. I also pulled the spoilers for potential reuse. Then, got it up on the quickjacks and pulled the wheels. And started measuring all the spots I think are critical. Seems like, other than the wheelbase, the duster body should fit! It will be shrink wrapped, but looks like it will clear. This is major. However, actually skinning the chassis as a duster will await it being a running, driving NASKART and getting shaken down.
Today after church, I started trying to figure out what some of the parts are. First up is the steering linkage. See, I got the car without a steering box. I was able to source a used one from halfast in 12:1 ratio. But I need a pitman arm, and this steering linkage has some play in the joints. Its not obvious. But the inner tie rod end holes in the centerlink have been welded and redrilled.
received_705531537354102 by Michael Crawford, on Flickr
per measurements, the closest thing I can find is the howe racing 71-73 camaro center link. Only difference is the tie rod point center to center, by ¼ inch. Which I think is down to measurement error. However, the tie rods don't match camaro, and I have no idea about the pitman or idler. Anyone have any ideas here?
Next is spindles and hubs up front. When I pulled the wheels, I noted that there was a stack of spacers bolted to the rotor hat. Also, the dust cap was incredibly beat up, no safety wire on the rotor bolts, etc. obviously, this whole thing needs disassembled, inspected, cleaned, etc. step at a time. The hub and spindle I haven't been able to identify yet. Id like to, so I can get bearings, longer studs, and new dust caps. The numbers didn't seem to come up with anything. Any ideas?
20220501_152609 by Michael Crawford, on Flickr
20220501_152625 by Michael Crawford, on Flickr
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20220501_152723 by Michael Crawford, on Flickr
I also test fit my 25 gallon fuel cell. I had gotten this and started a filing cabinet can for it when I still planned the AMC. I will use the filing cabinet metal to repair the crushed and rusty metal floor, and then form the top of the can to pick up all the bolt holes that are left around the cell. It sticks up proud of the floor about 6 inches, and is slightly smaller than the can itself, so I will add some stops and supports to retain it in the can better. The 25 gallon capacity is crucial to my goals though, as I figure the ls will go through about that much a day on track and I don't want to carry jugs in the truck if I don't have to.
20220423_153431 by Michael Crawford, on Flickr
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20220501_150815 by Michael Crawford, on Flickr
I figure ill finish this out with the rest of the brushstrokes. I have a complete 5.3 ls and wiring, saginaw 4 speed, and have just obtained kevco mounts for the swap. I have an aluminum radiator, 12 wheels, pirelli TA2 slicks, ultrashield seat, full box of autometer gauges, f body oil pan, harnesses, accusump, c5 corvette fuel pump module, new fuel sending unit, box of tilton masters, wilwood remote bias adjuster, tilton floor mount pedals, a ton of 3an lines, a couple of fire suppression systems, and misc supplies. I know ill need hanging pedals for a bias bar setup and hydraulic clutch since I cant make the floor mount tiltons I have work, ill need to sort the rear axle (I'm thinking 8.8 explorer, but the offset pinion is making me pause), remove the body for access, ill need boom tubes, driveshaft, wear items, oil cooler, etc. ill need to find a sway bar for the front, a fourth shock or a matching set, and square up the spring rates. Find long tube headers for the ls. Lots of other stuff as I go. Lots. And lots more.
the next steps are Steve coming by to look at cage rework for passengers side and door bars with me and inspect the chassis with me, and get the body off. I also need to make it roll, and be able to tow dolly.
So, all in, the cup car cost 1200, sold the body for 200. the rest of the parts haul and buying/selling have me at a car, large pile of parts and spares, etc for 2318 with 315 recoup.
That is one heck of a good read. I am excited for you and looking forward to seeing you at vir for the steering box handoff.
You covered a lot of ground there...and I love your inventory list.
what did the wheelbase end up being? If you don't need to cut down the door bars you are golden. I can show you how I did my a-pillars and bars in case you need to later on.
This is sort of spectacular!
Really, really awesome! With the body off everything will be so much easier.
In reply to jh36 :
The wheelbase is 110 on the cup car, 108 on the duster.
And definitely looking forward to vir! And really looking at your car. You are, after all, the main reason i finally did it.
This is an exciting project. What does the car weigh?
What groups will you be running with? If any of them require in date FIA fuel cells make sure you can still get a fuel cell of similar dimensions to what you modify the car to accept. I know NASA requires it.
In reply to nocones :
To begin, m4them, nasa hpde. I need to get back on the saddle of big tracks, and work my way up to licensure. When i stopped doing hpde 14 years ago, i was almost instructor level. That was a couple head injuries ago as well, so i want to start at the bottom with an underpowered overbuilt car and work my way up again.
Good call on cell size. Very good call.
Do you already have another Duster you're sacrificing for this build? You're not taking apart your red one, right?
In reply to maschinenbau :
Nope. Hunting one thats too far gone to save. Slantsix may have one in Pittsburgh woth title.
My red car is FAR too nice. And awesome as it is.
Dusterbd13-michael said:In reply to jh36 :
The wheelbase is 110 on the cup car, 108 on the duster.
And definitely looking forward to vir! And really looking at your car. You are, after all, the main reason i finally did it.
108 to 110, totally "fudgable", especially with flares!
Dusterbd13-michael said:
per measurements, the closest thing I can find is the howe racing 71-73 camaro center link. Only difference is the tie rod point center to center, by ¼ inch. Which I think is down to measurement error. However, the tie rods don't match camaro, and I have no idea about the pitman or idler. Anyone have any ideas here?
I think the easy button here is to convert the car to Rack and Pinion Steering.
I know you have the fabrication skills to pull it off.
In reply to Indy - Guy :
I have been giving that thought since you posted.
I think I m going to stay with the box and linkage. It makes sense to me, and once i figure out what I have, its a proven setup. The highest end drag link is $200, with bimpsteer correction built in. Tie rods and pitman and idler are 15-40 each.....
I agree the steering linkage is probably easiest to stay with, especially if you already have a line on good box. If you can't find the 'nascar' versions of those linkages, I bet you could replace with reproduction parts for any car that came with a Saginaw-style box. For example you can buy brand new every link, joint, arm, etc for a GM A-body and they look awful similar.
Maybe hit up the Nelsons for steering parts? They seem to have all kinds of crazy E36 M3 squirreled away, or maybe they can find something at their next swap meet.
I love your attention to detail in previous builds and am excited to see this one as well! Looks rad!
I think the cars name must be "Tommy Boy"
Gambit said:I think the cars name must be "Tommy Boy"
Im good with that!
Dusterbd13-michael said:In reply to jh36 :
The wheelbase is 110 on the cup car, 108 on the duster.
And definitely looking forward to vir! And really looking at your car. You are, after all, the main reason i finally did it.
I'm glad I could help? Ha ha...this is a great journey! Can't wait to do some show and tell...fun. Yeah, two inches will be easy to fudge with the wheel wells. I think I stressed a bit too much over this. With the massive track difference and protruding tires, it will be easy to carve out a hole that will work.
Of course, I'm now looking at dusters. There's one not too far from me on marketplace that looks complete as a roller. $1900. Not sure what they go for or if that's a good deal.
If it's called Tommy Boy, then you'll need a Sponsor......
Duster roller, $1750 should be able to get some Florida eyes on it.
https://jacksonville.craigslist.org/pts/d/orange-park-mopars-for/7462364600.html
Thanks yall! Trying to drop a zero or so off those prices though.
Im in absolutely no hurry (well, i shouldn't be anyhow) to get the duster body. Theres a lot of things that will be a lot easier without any body. And a lot of things to spend money on and work to do before the body could go on
I just need to slow down and focus.
How did the truck tow that much weight? Those UHaul trailers aren't light and I assume you can't have much up travel in that slammed rear end. Running on the bumpstops?
Love the project. At the rate you work it should be done in about a month?! Haha
sorry for the off topic post, are you happy with that Jeg's plasma cutter? I need one and was eyeing that one.
In reply to buzzboy :
Nah
Slowed down a lot in the last few years. Probably take six months to test drive.
As far as the truck, it wasn't quite on the bumpstops all the time, but it was on them pretty consistently. The belltech bumpstops are tall and progressive, so it wasn't as spleen shattering as you'd expect. But itvwas predictable, stable, stopped and steered good. Truck did almost exactly what i built it to do without any issues.
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