Making an L body handle - Shelby Charger content

novaderrik wrote: want another one for the fleet? http://fargo.craigslist.org/ptd/4139541142.html

Hmmmm, in many ways that one looks nicer than mine. Good thing it is in ND and I am in FL.

Also, the plot thickens on the non-start issue. Verified that I have spark on all plugs and that the fuel system is pumping fuel, the issue may be with how much. Some of the connectors on the logic module plugs were crusty so Matt cleaned them up and we now we are getting good pulsing on both injector banks.

Got some ether and she sounds like she wants to start but just will not fire. So I borrowed a fuel pressure tester from O'Reillys and we have 0 fuel pressure on the fuel rail. We put the in-line adapter in and checked again with the same results. Next we jumped the fuel pump circuit off the fuse panel and still no pressure. At this point it looks like I've got to pull the pump out of the tank and see what is up. The pump "sounds" like it is pressurizing the system when you cycle the ignition but there is no pressure. I have no clue how this could be an intermittent issue like I saw a few years ago but maybe it was. Either way this is seriously frustrating.

Could there be an issue with the fuel pressure regulator or an issue with blockage in the fuel lines?

More likely is that the fuel pump pickup is plugged due to junk in the tank.

Great progress though!

We clamped off the fuel pressure regulator line with no change in results. When I got the car 2+ years ago the PO said it needed a tank and pump. After inspection I agreed and bought a NOS tank and a Walbro 255 pump and a new fuel filter. I do not remember if I blew out the lines at that time but can't imagine that I did not do that while I was at it.

Now the car HAS sat for about 2 years but we were having a hot non-start issue when I parked it back then. The vacuum system on the car (with check valves, etc.) is just weird to me. I'm used to carbs... I imagine that it COULD be the FPR telling the pump not to pressurize the system, but 0 pressure just seems wrong to me.

Use "the works" toilet bowl cleaner to clean the inside of the gas tank while ya have it open. It works!

The walbro pump barb is not flared if I remember correctly. Maybe the line blew off the pump or the in tank line has a hole in it.

Thanks Pat. I will check that as soon as I pull the pump tomorrow after work. I originally got the pump from Turbos Unleashed in 2011 so I hope it is not bad.

Some of the connectors on the logic module plugs were crusty so Matt cleaned them up and we now we are getting good pulsing on both injector banks

Glad you caught that, saves the time of me suggesting it and waiting for the results!

As for the fuel pressure thing, i believe Pat is on to something. The line from the pump to the hanger probably either blew up or blew off. Unfortunately it's happened to me many times on my various turbo dodges and RIGHT NOW my caravan is 'broken' for that exact same reason.

What is weird is that I pulled the hose to the fuel rail and put it into a container and it pumped fuel when I cycled the key. Not a ton but I wouldn't expect for it to do this with the hose off. I could see where it could do it with a blown hose. I'll know tomorrow...

Vigo, I'm having issues getting this image to load but here is a shot of the rear suspension with the sway bar mount.

Brock2 wrote: Vigo, I'm having issues getting this image to load but here is a shot of the rear suspension with the sway bar mount.

hobiercr wrote: What is weird is that I pulled the hose to the fuel rail and put it into a container and it pumped fuel when I cycled the key. Not a ton but I wouldn't expect for it to do this with the hose off. I could see where it could do it with a blown hose. I'll know tomorrow...

You do know the pump will put out about 100+psi of fuel pressure right? The regulator set it to 55psi at ambient air pressure or about 46psi when connected to engine vacuum. So just a little fuel is not a good thing and likely points to a pickup problem or a blockage in the fuel lines.

Did anyone check to make sure the fuel lines aren't connected backwards? The High pressure feed is the smaller line and connects to the fuel rail. The larger hose connects to the output of the regulator. At the tank, it is the same situation.

BTW, you need the check valves in the vacuum system to ensure that the PCV and brake booster only see engine vacuum. The rest are either for BS emissions junk or for controlling the boost via solenoid. Compared to the rats nest that is on my 88 944 Turbo, the Chrysler turbo vacuum system is neat and tidy.

Brock2 wrote: Vigo, I'm having issues getting this image to load but here is a shot of the rear suspension with the sway bar mount.

Pretty much what I was thinking when I saw the availability of splined sway bars in various circle track flyers. Always hated the front torsion bar springs cum "anti-sway bar" solution used on the L and K-cars, so one of those should work mounted to the front frame rails in a similar fashion.

Of course the adjustable Weltmeister front sway bar that I got with my 924 should work in a similar way, but isn't any cheaper and is harder to find.

Thanks m4ff3w for covering for my confusion. Turboswede, the sway bar should have been mounted a couple of inches forward for better adjustment range but I can't move it as it is tied into the rear braces for the roll bar. The front bar uses a shorter splined-end bar mounted in the stock position. I originally ran the rear bar through the spare tire well but cut that out to save some weight.

Actually the 5/16th line is the feed and the 1/4th line is the return. My guess is either the hose in the tank or the rubber piece around the pump is coming apart and clogging the pickup. It's easy enough to get the pump out without dropping the tank.

Now I'm just frustrated. Dropped tank, pulled pump/sender assembly and dropped into big pan of gas to test on short line with loaner gauge from O'Reillys. 0 pressure, seriously? It sure doesn't look like 0 pressure. Shoved a 100 psi gauge into end of my test line and...95 psi. Pressure relief valve on pump is working too. Hooked fuel filter back in and hooked up lines to engine bay and jammed my gauge into line before rail...95 psi. Well crap. Dug through bin of fittings and fabbed up a line off fuel rail...55 psi, factory spec. berkeley.

I rechecked and all timing marks line up fine, fuel pump is working fine, fuel pressure regulator seems to be right on spec, spark on all four plugs...what am I missing? I can't believe that all four injectors are bad. I know I have pulsing on both injector banks as tested at the power module. She pops like she want's to start but she just can't get there. I even tried firing her with the pump forced to run while cranking...nope.

Anybody have a spare logic module I can plug in and try? At this point I don't know where to head next. I really don't want to pull the fuel rail as I don't think that's the issue. I really think there is something electronic that is timing out or stopping the engine from running. So berkeleying frustrating...

Disconnect the coolant temp sensor to put it in limp in and see if it starts.

Also, triple check that the timing is truly correct since it is very easy to get it 180 out and/or a tooth off.

Also you could try putting the fuel rail into a bucket and making sure the injectors are firing.

Make sure the ground for the injectors are connected along with the two ground straps from the engine to the chassis. One is from the fuel rail to the firewall and the other is from the motor mount to the frame rail. I've seen that trip up more than one person and cause them to chase their tails a bit, though that doesn't quite match the symptoms, it is easily overlooked.

Check your grounds. It should be negative battery cable to the head, wiring harness to the drivers inner fender, ground strap from intake to firewall, wiring harness to passenger inner fender.

Also make sure the rotor points towards number 1 with the engine at TDC, its possible that someone got the oil pump shaft out of alignment with the intermediate shaft. That would make you off at the distributor even though the timing mark on the gear is correct.

Where and how were you checking the injector pulse?

If you had the test light hooked to power and were watching switched ground somewhere close to the computer, that does not tell you whether the injectors are getting power. If you were hooked to ground and watching the power drop out on the ground circuit as the computer grounded the injectors, then that WOULD tell you they had power. So depending on which way you checked, you may want to check for power AT the injectors.

My suspicion, though, is a timing issue. The easiest way to check the cam and distributor timing on these things is to get the slot in the flywheel lined up with the 0 mark in the timing window on top of the trans bellhousing (some times there are two slots and only one is right, verify by pulling #1 plug and shining a light in it to see if you see the piston top at TDC), check the cam gear to see if it is on the right rotation (it moves half crank speed so it will only line up every other crank rotation) and its marks are lining up, and then pull the distributor cap and make sure the rotor is pointed towards where the #1 cyl terminal is on the cap. Looking at the distributor from the front of the car the rotor should be pointing at about the 10:30 position in clock terms.

Here's a picture of the cam gear marks. I like to go by the little arrows on the sides (you need a mirror to see this well).

My dads 86 glhs had several power module failures, but it did set a code (something like "no driver interface with fuel injection" was the description). If you already suspect that its bad it wouldn't be a bad idea to try replacing it.

Thank you all for the suggestions. I'll recheck the timing and go over the grounds one more time.

Vigo, we were checking the the injector pulse signal at the power module on the driver fender wall. Matt rigged up an LED with a resistor which flashed as the ground signal dropped out.

The weird thing about all of this is that 2 years ago it ran and I drove it with no issues until I shut it off when the shift linkage fell apart. At that point it would not re-fire. It is in neutral now but the new linkage has not yet been installed.

Travis, I wish I could pull a code off this but the only dash gauge that works right now is the volt meter. I've got no check engine light so I can't get any flashes for a code read.

Is the ground connected at the side of the transaxle shifter tower? (Underneath the air box area on the top of the transaxle.

On an early T1, There are two ground wires for the injector harness that goes under one of the mounting bolts for the fuel rail. I think the later t2 cars grounded the rail differently.

Both of these can cause issues.

Might be a good idea to check injector power at the rail itself. I've had issues with the large injector harness connector due to heat damage and age. Also had a car with the injector pairs connected backwards.

I asked Joey to move this here as it now is more of a build thread than a handling discussion. A quick update.

Run issue: After checking all the systems, pulling the tank and checking the pump we traced the issue back to the logic module. Power module is firing both FI banks but the LM is only telling one bank to fire. New LM is inbound. Matt, a local Hong member helped immensely with the electrical testing/diagnosis and taught me a ton about how the system works. He also built me a brand new injector harness and cleaned up some of the wiring mess under the hood. Thanks you again Matt!

Handling issue: Other than the rear beam the entire suspension os off the car and old, disintegrating bushings pressed out. In the process I bent the crap out of one arm (don't ask) but should be able to straighten it and get the new bushing installed. All parts are clean and waiting for install.

Suspension: I sourced a cheap set of SRT4 takeoffs with Eibach lowering springs. Depending on time these may or may not be stripped down and coilovers added. Rear shocks arrived yesterday so I can mock up what length springs I will need.

Steering: When I had the car running 2 years ago the power steering had a massive leak (think Valdez) After inspection the problem seemed to lay in the rack, not the hoses, pipes or pump. Monday night I dropped the front crossmember which holds the rack and got it all apart (filthy) and yesterday pressure washed the crossmember and ordered a replacement rack. Should be here Sunday.

What's left: A LOT of assembly, hopefully hearing it start, sourcing a better seat, installing better belts, finding some better tires than my 9 yo A6's and maybe even installing the FMIC I have. I still haven't registered for the Challenge as I can't do that until I am sure the car will run. I've registered before and had to eat the $150 fee and I won't do it again.

Huge props to Vigo & Les who have been an endless source of knowledge and support on these cars. Late night texts and emails have really helped after a night in the shop presented more roadblocks.

What I still need to find: Better seat Better 225/45/15 tires Springs (not sure of length yet though). Ideally I want to try a 400/350 setup but we'll see what happens time wise.

Sorry no picts. My hands have been far to nasty to pick up my phone during projects lately.

This might help:

http://minimopar.net/ecu/index.html

Did you pull the ECU out and make the connectors are clean and making contact? The ECU really needs to be protected from water to work properly.

I'd seriously consider upgrading that ECU to an 87 T2 ECU, which is faster and easier to reprogram. Though that would require converting the car to T2 intake, intercooler and turbo.

Check out polybushings.com for bushings and motor mounts and ditch that stock sway bar as it will always bind and cause your spring rate to change randomly. We call larger front sway bars, the solid axle conversion kit, since they just tend to make the cars understeer worse.

Ultimately, a tubular K-frame and properly mounted and actuated sway bar will help the suspension work so much better on those cars:

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?56319-Tubular-K-frames-now-available&s=30d81ca184886ac9c021bacc18efbcec

The power steering hoses break down and leak on those cars and the stock "ham can" pumps suck the big one. I'd replace the pump with a newer one off a later car with the ZF or "plastic reservoir" tank which is easier to adjust, takes up less room and uses hoses that are less likely to leak due to their use of a large banjo fitting on the back. Just grab the pump, bracket and hose. You'll need a shorter belt, but it is the same type as stock, just get one 2 numbers shorter I believe.

BTW, the Shelby's had a fast ratio rack, so if you get a rebuild, make sure it has the same number of turns lock to lock as your stock one before you let it go. A 1st-gen Neon rack will work as well, but isn't as fast, but is in between in ratios.

The seat mounts in the L-body is fairly square and easy to adapt to other seats. The trick is the height at the front due to the front seat mount cross member. So basically anything on the sporty side with a low profile will work, provided you can drill some steel to bridge the stock rails and adapt the stock mounts to whatever the new seat is. I did this with Daytona leather enthusiasts seats for my Rampage and they were much better, but the front sat a little high.

In reply to turboswede:

Yep, we cleaned the connections really well and even swapped the injector banks to confirm that we were only getting signal on one bank from the LM. When swapped the other bank fired fine meaning that the LM was the culprit.

It is a T2. The car is basically a full GLHS clone but without the sunroof. Everything else including the flat faded black paint are there.

I have a full set of Polybushings ready to install. Thanks Johnny! I doubt I'll be able to do anything about the front swaybar on this outing but maybe for the future.

Next time I go to the JY I will look for the plastic reservoir pump, bracket and hoses. Can I grab one from any K,L,G body with the 2.2 engine? My local JY has little in the way of L bodies but TONS of K bodies right now. Coupes, Sedans and Wagons galore.

Yeah, Vigo gave me a complete lesson the the different racks offered. Mine has a roughly 2.5 turn rack. As it is a clone it may not be the original rack. I was able to find a correct replacement off Rock Auto. Hopefully it is correct. In my research it seems as these get screwed up a lot.

I have a line on a seat but no time to get to it after hours these days. Too much travel time to get there and I've got to get the car running first.

If you need parts let me know, I'm parting a GLH/T. Pretty much everything but the body panels are the same.