mid engine 2002 pontiac sunfire coupe

Yes, I'm talking about those cars nobody seems to like.

http://www.google.com/imgres?biw=1440&bih=785&tbm=isch&tbnid=BsZaJu3-1GtkdM:&imgrefurl=http://www.netcarshow.com/pontiac/2000-sunfire/1600x1200/wallpaper_06.htm&docid=YGzwl3KahDlnWM&imgurl=http://img.netcarshow.com/Pontiac-Sunfire_2000_1600x1200_wallpaper_06.jpg&w=1600&h=1200&ei=iPT9UZemD4j4yQGu6ICgCg&zoom=1&ved=1t:3588,r:32,s:0,i:192&iact=rc&page=2&tbnh=181&tbnw=239&start=15&ndsp=20&tx=105&ty=93

I am working on putting a 3800 in it, but the car is screaming to be a mid engine. It would be super awesome for sure. The weight on a stock sunfire is 2600 lbs with a 63/37 split. Putting the 3800 up front would only make it worse. Making it a mid engine would put the weight at about 2800 lbs and ~45/55.

I have been running it through my head and am lookling for some input. The back seat would be pretty much gone. It would be crazy fast and would handle great. It should get pretty good mileage too since it has a 2.84 final. The motor/tranny is out of our olds 88 and got roughly 30-32 mpg in the heavy car.

It stands to reason that it would get even better mileage since it would be about 800 lbs lighter. I am thinking it would get about 40 mpg with some aero treatments.

I would put the radiator in the rear and close off the front completely. The underside would get a belly pan. The spoiler could be used to extend the trunk lid and improve airflow. The gas tank could go up front, but I could make it work in the rear too.

I think it would somewhat resemble a veyron once completed and you would be able to see the engine under the rear glass.

What do you guys think? Any ideas? Let me know what you think in general too.

This is a budget build. The only thing I really need is a donor to take the front end out of so I can put it in the back of the sunfire.

I guess there are worse things you can do with a Sunfire. It's a lofty idea, but might be cool at the end. I think the "budget" part would be impossible though. Good luck!

40 mpg seems a bit optimistic, but it sounds as if this fixes two of the significant problems on a J-body: Bad weight distribution and that rear beam axle.

Go for it - you're on a forum of enablers, anyway.

A similar idea has been done before. Basically, you want a Sunfire based Festiva Shogun. Someone did a Shogun inspired built for a challenge. There is an article about it floating somewhere on this site. You could inspire yourself from it.

I think you are being optimistic about your target MPG's but the rest seems very reasonable. If you use the SC version of the 3800 that is.

That shogun is just what I had in mind with this project.

I was able to hit 46 mpg in the olds with some cardboard and duck tape and some nice easy driving. My 3800 has 186,000 miles on it and the compression is still 195-200 psi on all cylinders. It has been living on Mobil 1 and premium, ethanol free gas. It goes as good as new, if not better. I am going to replace the gaskets in the motor just for good measure.

I removed the power steering and a/c when the motor was still in the olds and that thing moved.

I shall be watching this one...

Sounds pretty cool. I don't think you'll hear anyone around here say "nah, don't do that". If you do, don't listen.

Engine access is gonna be interesting.

Do it.

MadScientistMatt wrote: 40 mpg seems a bit optimistic, but it sounds as if this fixes two of the significant problems on a J-body: Bad weight distribution and rear beam axle Go for it - you're on a forum of enablers, anyway.

You have it all wrong, the twist beam makes the car sorta entertaining on dirt because it will lift oversteer. Also makes great jack point when the rockers disappear.

This forum is AA with free beer.

I don't know when the next update will be. I am trying to get some other things done first. I am trying to locate a front end to put in the rear. As soon as I find one, I will be updating again.

isaaccarlson wrote: I am trying to locate a front end to put in the rear.

I was surprised when you admitted to wanting a Sunfire project. Now it makes a little more sense.

Bryce

I have been trying to find a sunfire for parts or at least a front end for cheap. I have a few leads but nothing solid as of yet. I will be jumping in as soon as I get a front end in hand.

Don't put the radiator in the back, you can't save drag by doing this. Air still has to go through the radiator somehow and there's no free lunch. Putting it in the front will give it cooler air and make the new engine bay less crowded.

psteav wrote: Sounds pretty cool. I don't think you'll hear anyone around here say "nah, don't do that". If you do, don't listen. Engine access is gonna be interesting.

Nah...engine access will be a breeze. "Hey, kids! Nudge the distributor clockwise for me, ok? Yeah...you can unbuckle if you need to."

That's why you have kids, I remember helping dad put the big block in his Monte Carlo, and learning a painful lesson about magnetos.

This thread has got me thinking/dreaming. Instead of the 3800, what about the latest version of the GM High Feature V6 engine? Just a lazy 302 HP from a late model wrecked Chev Impala... What's not to like?! Do it!

Now all that needs to be done is see if there's a manual transaxle that bolts directly to it...