new members $2016 Challenge build

jmk015 wrote: Does anyone know a junkyard source for a higher RPM stall converter for a 4L60 transmission?

This one's still on my to-do list. Find a '95+ S10 or Blazer V6. Apparently they drop right in the B-bodies and increase stall from 1200 to 2000+. Probably similar results for your Camaro.

http://www.impalassforum.com/vBulletin/showthread.php?t=231221&page=3

I don't know 4th gens as well, but I believe this feature carried over. The long torque arm in the center mounts to the transmission, right? Fix that. Mount it to the chassis, and connect the subframes with connectors.

maschinenbau wrote:

jmk015 wrote: Does anyone know a junkyard source for a higher RPM stall converter for a 4L60 transmission?

This one's still on my to-do list. Find a '95+ S10 or Blazer V6. Apparently they drop right in the B-bodies and increase stall from 1200 to 2000+. Probably similar results for your Camaro. http://www.impalassforum.com/vBulletin/showthread.php?t=231221&page=3

Thanks for the tip on the 4.3 S-10. I did some reading on it and it seems like the budget friendly torque converter of choice. I couldn't find anywhere where it said if it was just the 4.3 s10 pickups, of if the v6 s10 Blazers have them too?

I'll have to hit my local salvage yard for one.

Does the engine turn? Sitting with a blown head gasket for six months might seize the motor.

You should be able to sent the stock converter out to get rebuilt with a higher stall for 100-200 bucks

Caleb wrote: You should be able to sent the stock converter out to get rebuilt with a higher stall for 100-200 bucks

Tell me more about this... do you know a shop that does this?

Jerry From LA wrote: Does the engine turn? Sitting with a blown head gasket for six months might seize the motor.

Nope. You nailed it, the motor is seized. We knew this was a possibility when we bought it, but it was cheap so we're still happy with our purchase.

When we bought the car, the P.O. had already started to pull the motor. He un-hooked the whole motor harness, removed the radiator and fan, and un-bolted the converter from the flex plate. Since un-bolting the converter involves rotating the motor, we knew that it had turned over 6 months ago when he did the work. We couldn't crank it due to removed wires and bad battery.

Yesterday I hooked up the under-hood wiring again and tested all of the electrical. Good news: every single electrical component on the car works, except the cigarette lighter and alternator. (opti-spark is still un-tested since we need to crank it to spark check) Bad news: The starter wouldn't crank the motor.

So, what does one do with a stuck motor? Pull the plugs and oil down the cylinders. LT1 spark plugs are awful to remove. I had no idea that spark plug removal could be this bad. I could have pulled the motor from a 3rd gen Camaro faster than it took me to access the plugs on this LT1! It took me 1.5 hours. Plugs from cylinders 5 and 7 came out with wet and rusty tips. Not good. I think the blown gasket was around 5 and 7 and flooded them with coolant that rusted the motor.

Even with the plugs out, I could not rotate the motor by the flex plate or with the starter. Bummer.

Hopefully we'll get the motor pulled this weekend for an inspection. If its just light rust in 1 or 2 cylinders, a hone and re-ring might do it. If its bad, we'll be needing a short block. We can't do our own machine work, and paying someone to do it would be out of Challenge budget.

Does anyone in the VA, MD, PA, WV area have a good LT1 short block they want to sell us?? we found some LT1's on Craigslist for cheap, but used motors on Craigslist are always a gamble...

Another question for the Chevy motor gurus:

LT1 gasket kits are EXPENSIVE! I really just want intake, head, exhaust, and oil pan gaskets. Can I buy one of the cheap 'generic' gen 1 small block Chevy gasket sets and use the aforementioned gaskets on an LT1?

I think tbi motor gaskets interchange, but not certain.

wheels777 wrote:

jmk015 wrote: Does anyone in the VA, MD, PA, WV area have a good LT1 short block they want to sell us?? we found some LT1's on Craigslist for cheap, but used motors on Craigslist are always a gamble...

We have (1) complete 9C1 engine, (2) sets of Aluminum heads, (1) shortblock, a computer, a harness, timing chain set, (1) hi-perf cam and maybe some other stuff that my son can remember. What I don't have is the front cover or distributor for the short block. We can make a package deal that will allow you to get your project done and have a good volume of stuff to sell off. OR, If you don't want to sell things off, we can itemize. We have sold (13) engines recently....So our prices are Challenge Friendly.

Thanks for the offer!

I'm definitely interested in some of your parts, specifically the short block and cam. I'll pull my motor this weekend and see what I have that's good and what's bad and get back to you so we can work something out.

I know my bottom end is locked up, so I'm thinking a used short block is probably going to be the way to go, rather than fix mine... since this is a very budget conscious project. The timing cover and distributor off of my motor should be able to bolt onto your short block, right?

Wheels, what's your opinion on putting the 4.3 s10 converter behind a v8? Is it worth it, and will it hold up? I found a low mileage one in my local pull-a-parts yard, and I can get it for $15.

Also, can you recommend any good auto parts flea markets or swap meets in the area?

Thanks again for your help!

To the OP: unless the rear gear has been swapped, it's either a 2.73 or a 3.23 from the factory. Does it have the 155mph speedo? If so, it's a 3.23. Rear gear, speedo, and tires were tied together -- the Eagle GSC tires were z-rated and only came with 3.23 (auto) or 3.42 (6MT).

This probably a good time to repeat what I said on page 1 of this thread...

JohnRW1621 wrote: Welcome to the world of The Challenge. It is possible your life could never be the same; in good ways...I think. One thing that I feel deserves to be pointed out is that unlike many other competitions, in The Challenge, your "competitors" really want to see you succeed. Don't be shy to ask for advise, ask for info or ask for leads to odd parts. Your profile says you are in Frederick, MD. If so, that puts you about 1.5 hours from York, PA and the epicenter of Challenge greatness. If I were you, and especially if you run Chevy engines, I would try to get a visit to see a bit of what the Wizard has behind the curtain!

jmk015 wrote: Also, can you recommend any good auto parts flea markets or swap meets in the area?

OMG, I bet he can. One thing I would like to see in person is Wheels and Family at these swap meets because what I read here are some tremendous buys from a guy who seems to have an incredible eye to know what he is really looking at.

I also sense that you better be ready to get up early, like milk the cows early, because it seems this early bird gets a lot of worms.

Thanks for all the kind words and help so far!

We dropped the motor and tranny on Friday night. I assume you guys like pictures:

Getting the motor and tranny out of the car took us ~6 hrs, but we've never done this before on an F-body. It was pretty easy really, except for a few rusty bolts that really fought us. We remembered to un-hook everything and get it out of the way, except for the two front brake ABS wires... but luckily the plugs just popped loose when we jacked the car up. We don't have a proper hoist or lift, so i made a beefy wooden bar out of 2x4's to put between the frame rails and use as a jack point to get the nose of the car high enough to roll the power train out on moving dollies. This probably isn't the best way to do it, but it worked for us.

The oil was a little milky, and there was some minor sludge and rust on the pushrods. Overall, the heads look decent and the valve springs, valves, and guides all look 'nice'. A least they aren't rusted.

I'll take the heads off tomorrow and see whats going on inside the cylinders and give the heads a proper inspection. I'm also anxious to get the short block on the engine stand and take off the oil pan and inspect the bottom end bearings. I'm hoping they're ok...

We had to stop here for the night because: 1) it was pretty late 2) my garage is solar powered and has a battery bank, so its completely off the grid, and we ran out of juice...

We also scored a set of 1984 C4 Corvette wheels off of Craigslist for $150!

These are the 16x8.5'' front and 16x9.5'' rear. I'm hoping we can run 295 tires on the rear, but we'll have to wait and see how its all going to fit on the car.

I think we're going to sell the stock z28 wheels to try to recoup some money. Do you guys think we can get $150 for the stock wheels and center caps? If so, that'd be sweet because then the C4 wheels wouldn't make a dent in the Challenge budget. If not, what do you think a fair asking price would be? (Wheel prices are all over the place on my local Craigslist, so its hard for me to get a feel for the market price, anywhere from $100/set all the way to $400/set for OEM stock wheels.)

I would put those C4 wheels in my generic parts stash, then self-trade them for the Z28 wheels.

We are building the same Challenge car, except mine has 1,000 lbs on yours and can seat 8.

My C4 wheels are only 8.5" front and rear though

^ That is a sweet Buick. We briefly considered a Caprice cop car with an LT1, which I assume is basically the same thing as your Buick. There's something strangely appealing about racing a huge car.

The c4 wheels actually look pretty good on your car. I also like the faux wood, I wouldn't change the paint if I were you. You could go with some sort of National Lampoon Vacation concourse theme...

Are you doing anything power mods to your LT1?

I pulled the heads off of the motor today. The heads looked pretty good, the hardware and valves were rust free!! The stupid exhaust manifold to Y-pipe bolts were rusted solid and needed cutting off.

Here's the right side cylinders: Nothing a hone and re-ring wouldn't fix...

Here's the left side (children and those with a weak stomach should look away):

The cylinders are deeply pitted, and the rings are rusted solid to the cylinder wall. I still can't make it turn over. I think our best and cheapest option is going to be to pick up a good used short block.

I filled the chambers in the heads with a mix of acetone and WD40, to see if any of it leaks past the valves. While I realize that this isn't the best way to test a head, its all I can do. If they don't leak any fluid, I'll probably hand lap all of the vales, replace the stem seals, install a set of Alex's springs, and run them. If they do leak, we'll figure something else out...

jmk015 wrote:

wheels777 wrote:

jmk015 wrote: Does anyone in the VA, MD, PA, WV area have a good LT1 short block they want to sell us?? we found some LT1's on Craigslist for cheap, but used motors on Craigslist are always a gamble...

We have (1) complete 9C1 engine, (2) sets of Aluminum heads, (1) shortblock, a computer, a harness, timing chain set, (1) hi-perf cam and maybe some other stuff that my son can remember. What I don't have is the front cover or distributor for the short block. We can make a package deal that will allow you to get your project done and have a good volume of stuff to sell off. OR, If you don't want to sell things off, we can itemize. We have sold (13) engines recently....So our prices are Challenge Friendly.

Thanks for the offer! I'm definitely interested in some of your parts, specifically the short block and cam. I'll pull my motor this weekend and see what I have that's good and what's bad and get back to you so we can work something out. I know my bottom end is locked up, so I'm thinking a used short block is probably going to be the way to go, rather than fix mine... since this is a very budget conscious project. The timing cover and distributor off of my motor should be able to bolt onto your short block, right? Wheels, what's your opinion on putting the 4.3 s10 converter behind a v8? Is it worth it, and will it hold up? I found a low mileage one in my local pull-a-parts yard, and I can get it for $15. Also, can you recommend any good auto parts flea markets or swap meets in the area? Thanks again for your help!

I noticed my dad (wheels777) never responded. It is best to contact him by call or text to his phone. I believe he gave you his number. Just wanted to let you know, as it appears you will be needing to contact him soon. :)

TheV8Kid wrote: I noticed my dad (wheels777) never responded. It is best to contact him by call or text to his phone. I believe he gave you his number. Just wanted to let you know, as it appears you will be needing to contact him soon. :)

Yep, we talked on the phone last night. I'll be heading up your way on Thursday to take your lot of LT1 stuff of your hands.

Thanks Wheels!!

jmk015 wrote: ^ That is a sweet Buick. We briefly considered a Caprice cop car with an LT1, which I assume is basically the same thing as your Buick. There's something strangely appealing about racing a huge car. The c4 wheels actually look pretty good on your car. I also like the faux wood, I wouldn't change the paint if I were you. You could go with some sort of National Lampoon Vacation concourse theme... Are you doing anything power mods to your LT1?

Thanks! I found a Comp Cams 260XFI on CL and a set of high lift valvesprings. That combined with a hacked-up set of F-body headers, cold air, and a tune, should be good to go.

I might play with some porting work since I have an extra (cracked) head to practice on, which is also why the car was only $300.

Also, please let me know if you find a cheap source for piston rings and valve stem seals!

We sold the stock Camaro Y-pipe tonight for $40! That's our first part sale to put some money back into the budget!

But, we quickly spent it and then some because we ordered head bolts, a gasket set, and better valve springs from Summit... which totaled $201.91. We figured it wasn't worth the risk of running used head bolts and springs, so we opted to buy new.

I'm looking forward to meeting Wheels777 tomorrow and taking a load of LT1 parts off his hands!

Lets talk about torque converters, since this is my first automatic transmission car for the track.

We'll be using the stock LT1 heads and intake, the GM Performance 'Hot Cam' and probably some 1.6 ratio rockers. Overall, its a pretty 'mild' setup.

Will we benefit from a 2,400 RPM torque converter with lockup? We can get a good deal on a remanufactured one. We decided that junkyard /flea market converters scare us, since a failure could be really bad.

Would it be worth spending more money on a ~3,000 RPM stall?

The LT1 and Camaro forums have tons on conflicting opinions on this matter. Some say that a higher stall will give worse throttle response, and we're concerned that would be bad for autocross. Will a 2,400 stall converter give us enough gains in our ET and/or 60-foot to make it worth while over the stock unit?

Thanks!

You'll get a lot of ET out of a converter, especially if you launch it against the flash speed and hook rather than spin.

Exactly how much will be hard to say. I'd buy it, try it, and it you're not happy, or feel that your budget would be better spent elsewhere, sell it off.