Nocones $2020 challenge build thread

In reply to OHSCrifle :

I am not aware of a RX-1.8 being a thing.  People apparently do the MZR 2.3/2.5 with some regularity.   It would just be a 2002 1.8 VVT engine.  Mostly we would do it because the trans would play reasonably well with the driveshaft and PPF and the integration with the Rest of the car electronics wouldn't matter for a track car.  So I'll pull the wiring ECM, gauges intact and we may wind up putting it in.   Maybe we will start a strange -70hp trend for RX8s..

I will likely leave the LMP-EVO upgrades here.  The number of people that lurk on this thread from the rest of the internet and tell me about it from meets and shows is high.  

So I awoke to a notification this morning from YouTube.   

My build was included in the most recent Donut Media D-list.

I'm towards the end of the video. 

Pretty cool to get a mention on such a big channel with my low buck build.  I thought since nothing else was going on with the build I would mention it.  

Apparently I'm "Out of Hand".  

I guess you'd have to add turbos to get above the wrecker?

still think you're getting robbed here

In reply to sleepyhead the buffalo :

I'm just happy I was on the list.  Looking around at YT the builds that have shown up since the last time they did a similar video have been mental.  The fact that I was mentioned before some of the other options is impressive.  

I would say between stuff like this and Larry Chen saying it was one of the 10 best from PRI shows one of the initials goal of the build has been met.  To demonstrate that you can use ingenuity and DIY effort to make something that is noteworthy in todays IG/YT Social Media influencing world of Big $, 1000+ HP builds despite being cheap and low HP.    

In reply to nocones :

I don't know if anyone else has said this, but I believe that you deserve every ounce of recognition for this build. It really is "out of hand," but in the best way possible.

It's not just for show, and it wasn't built for clicks on YouTube (though I'd say it's starting to bring in the clicks). It's a rad build with a cool story and I'm just glad I've been able to see the evolution of this build in person.

I do share the sentiment that you were robbed, though. I'm sure they would change their mind if they saw the build in person.

And yes, I still have my fingers crossed that it'll be on the grid at the next UTCC.

Very cool!

Still catching up from Christmas break and the hellscape that my personal life has become.

Excited for the EVOlution of the car.  Can't wait to see it morph and change

In for a t-shirt.  2XL, please.

I touched this car this weekend.   A bunch more parts have arrived.  I will get some pictures and outline what I've got but the big things where the Fire system and all the brake calipers/pads finally arriving.  

All these wings make excellent shelves.  

I shuffled the garage around again.  I realized it made more sense to put the pile of crap on wheels under the 360 Van and then just have the LMP360 in it's traditional build spot leaving room for the SLC-10 in front of the "carwall".   So I had to modify another set of rails but now I have space to get around and behind the car shelves which makes the garage work better.   

This week I should have the LMP360 back on the lift ready to start taking it all apart for it's Evolution.  

I think I'm probably just going to drag it back down to the challenge this year and run it in Evolution state (however much is complete) and probably only Autox it at the actual challenge.   No reason to risk running it down the strip again to just post up more slow times.  

Then I'm going laptime hunting at the FIRM, I want sub 1:20...   It will be a good shakedown for Gridlife events and I want to see what it can do with brakes and pullrods I trust to push it hard for several laps.   

Way to long Garage rearrange project is done.   Car is on lift ready for dissasbly to begin.   

This arrangement will give me space to work on the 360 and do stuff on the SL-C10.  

Time to get started wrenching.   

Oooo, Evolution state. When did you get a 4G63??

Ok it took a bit, had a spring break vacation and some other stuff come up but I'm finally turning wrenches.   

Last night I took 35 minutes and stripped the car down.   It's not quite real LMP car level easy to strip down but everything come off except the center wing mount with a few bolts and about 20 rivets.  

I forget how small and compact the actual business parts of this car are when it spent the last year just growing bigger with Aero and bodywork.  It runs and is completely driveabile.  

I took a time lapse while disassembling.  It turned out okay I think. 

Tonight I plan to look it over and figure out any unexpected repairs before I get to modificating the suspension to add the 3rd element.

Progress has been made!

A huge part of the LMP360-EVO development is about improving on track safety.  Infact it will be over half of the ~$5900 budget increase on the car.  It’s not that the car as built is unsafe.  The cage is Legal, harnesses exist, and there aren’t shady undersized parts in the suspension.  But between rules requirements and my own personal desires improvements need to be made.  

A FIA FT3 bladdered fuel cell has previously been in the car and it will simply be re-installed.  Additional fuel system modifications are planned (AN type fuel lines) but they are really a secondary level of change and may not occur until after a few events.

A on board fire system will be installed as well.  This is required by the Gridlife Rules for the class the car will run in and generally Fire = Bad.

The last big area of safety improvements is infact the first one I will address and that’s Brakes.

The current braking system on the car is:

Front: Donor car sourced Pads/Calipers/Rotors from 2002 Outback.  These are 2 piston sliding calipers with 294mm rotors.

Rear: Donor car sourced Pads/Calipers/Rotors from 1996 Impreza.  These are Single piston Sliding calipers with 250mm rotors.  

Lines: Jegs Universal brake line kit with braided stainless hoses.  An3->banjo adapter fittings and a Brake Bias Valve in the rear brake line.  

Pedals/MC: OEM Subaru Outback pedals and master cylinder.  Pedal assembly is inverted with pushrod extended to mount MC in front of inboard shocks.  Booster removed and manual ratio pushrod hole drilled.  

So there are some issues that I don’t like.  All the brake components are old and the pads are really bad.  At the FIRM I got fade pretty bad after a lap which resulted in incredibly long braking zones and generally not pushing the car.  The OEM dual circuit master cylinder has 2 additional ports that are currently plugged with correct thread bolts but I don’t like having these extra ports just there.  The OEM master cylinder is not properly biased and sized for front and rear disc brakes with this weight balance.  There is not sufficient rear brake bias for the car, the bias valve only allows the rear pressure to be reduced, not increased.  The modified brake pushrod makes me nervous.  It’s way overbuilt but it’s modified.  Brake components really shouldn’t be modified.

So what’s the plan:

Front: New stock replacement 2002 Outback 2-piston Calipers and 294mm Rotors.  Hawk 9012 pads.  The Outback brakes are common diameter to WRX parts with only a small difference in caliper size.  “Track” pads are available for these calipers so there is no reason to change to the “WRX” spec calipers.

Rear: New stock replacement 2000 Subaru 2.5RS 2-piston Calipers and 277mm Rotors.  Hawk 9012 pads. Again the 2.5RS stuff has readily available track pads but is more pedestrian in price then more exotic options.   This will be a HUGE improvement in rear brake torque available and heat sink compared to current.

Lines:  Re-use the Current Lines

Pedals/MC:  Wilwood 340-16603 pedal assembly with remote reservoir master cylinders.  

I knew I wanted to put a aftermarket pedal set in the car.  I have experience with the Wilwood pedals and MC as that is what is ran in the MG.  I was happy with how easy to mount the Wilwood pedal set was, and they have provided 5 years of good performance with no issues so I knew I wanted to use Wilwood stuff on the LMP360.   The MG uses reverse hung pedals and the LMP360 would need floor mount pedals so I needed to do some information gathering.  I talked to the Wilwood reps during PRI to see what was available and what would work best.  When I told them what car it was for they had already seen the car on display and wanted to be a part of the project.  

I provided them specs for the calipers and car weight and CG and a week ago a big box of shiny engineered performance parts arrived.  

So now I need to put them in the car.

The front of the chassis is a bit of a crowded space.  The inboard shocks take up most of the top of the firewall, and because I wanted as long of arms as possible the inboard pivots for the suspension are in the way as well.  The high floor limits the amount of space under these components as well.  

It was a hard needle to thread but the angle grinder came out and made some space.  I cut out the current footwell cross member so the master cylinders can occupy the space where the 2x2 used to live.  This will all get plated back in and should be at least as strong as it was before.  

The clutch master cylinder will have to be mounted “remote” from the pedals.  The pedals are just low enough that a extended pushrod can be used to actuate the clutch.  This pushrod will go just beneath the inner suspension pivot.  

I had hoped I wouldn’t have to modify the pedal assembly itself in anyway.  I unfortunately will end up having to remove the upper clutch master cylinder bolt and boss from the pedals.  This bolt would actually be coincident with the suspension pivot.   However the brake master cylinders and actuation will be entirely Wilwood with no modification, extensions, or shenanigans.  Just installed per their instructions which honestly is the most important part.  

I'm very excited for the improved confidence I will have in the revised brakes on the car.  

Huge thanks to Wilwood for supporting the build.  

Hell yeah, glad to hear they are onboard. Following along

Last night I made a plate.  This is the start of the new mount.  

In reply to nocones :

Thats not a dinner plate but it still looks tasty!

given the light weight and low CG and static rear bias, i would walk through all the equations and see if it would benefit you to run the same brake at all four corners, whether the impreza rears (probably big enough) or the outback fronts (definitely too big).

FWIW, MonZora has C4 Front brakes on the front and C5 Front brakes on the rear.

Today I went on an adventure.  I've been struggling with what my plan is with the engine in the 360.   At some point before UTCC I want to get the WRX motor in it. 

But it needs heads swapped and all the associated I removed the heads maintenance done.  It also needs to be installed in the car with it's turbo relocated and it's wireing stripped down.  

It's all a do able project but not before the car is scheduled to run the FIRM and a few Gridlife events.  So run it with the EJ25 you say.   Well.   I probably hurt it at the FIRM with my I don't understand Subaru cooling system schenanigans.  

So I've been unsure what to do about that.   I've not wanted to hustle the EJ20 swap because if I get halfway or run into a problem I'm screwed.  

I considered doing a quick head gasket job on the engine I have but I typed "Subaru motor" into FBM.  

The ECU/Wiring is for a EJ251 which in stock form are the most head gaskety of the Subaru and unfortunately the wireing doesn't work with a EJ253+.  Most engines I found where either the wrong EJ, or high mile EJ251s and $800+.   But I found one that was a claimed rebuild for $1200.  It didn't specify which kind but the picture looked EJ251.  

I reached out to the guy and found out it was rebuilt as a "reliability improved" DD motor in a 2.5RS and critically was a EJ251.  And the PO knew this.   So I arranged today for pickup and got the exact location.   

Turns out it was ~5min from Patrick's house, which ironically I've been to to pick up a Subaru motor before, and needed to give him back his Oil pressure sending unit.  

So I drove over to Cleveland area (~6.5 hrs each way) and put nearly 2× the HP in my Elantra. 

The motor is very clean and hopefully will provide good reliable service this summer until the swap can be completed.  

It was good to see you today!

When you decide that you want to go aftermarket on the wrx swap, I will come help you get it set up. I won't be a ton of help but I assume that you will provide beer and pizza. 

The Haltech R3 just came out and it is a really compelling piece of hardware. 

"whether the impreza rears (probably big enough) or the outback fronts (definitely too big)."  If I had to embrace the enough swept brake area vs ooops conversation my vote would be big is good ......and yes I realize all the dynamics of added weight that this perhaps adds to the discussion.

Pedal box mounts are fabricated just need finish welded.   I for some reason struffled with some of the welding on these so I'm not super joyful with the result, but it will work.  

I've also had a lot of parts showing up over the last few weeks.  I'll post more as I install them but this pile of motion control came in from Speedway.   ~$12/rod saved hours of work.  

The gold ones will replace the pullrods with 1/2" rod ends.  The aluminum ones are all for the 3rd element and Tbar which I plan to get mostly done this weekend.

In reply to MuSTANK :

It's a Autobianchi Transformable.  Related to a Fiat 500 for sure.  Someday project I picked up on the forum.

Oh also I forgot to mention it here..  though you all already know because you obviously subscribe to GRM (You do subscribe to GRM right?)..  

The car has a Feature in this months GRM.  For YEARS I've read the magazine and been inspired by many of the builds and projects featured in the pages.  I never thought I would manage to make something cool enough to grace the magazine page.  It's really cool to have my build honored in that way.   

It was great chatting with JA for his research for the article and I think it turned out well.  

I have a huge post coming on design of 3rd elements, Swaybars, spring math, and such.  It may wind up as a linked separate thread.  But the physical work has begun to install it. 

Without a complete redesign there is no way to get around needing an additional set of belcranks.  The current belcranks are wedged in so tight and in an orientation that I can't add linkages to directly operate a 3rd element and Swaybars.   The A-arms are in the way on the pull side and the push side is pointed in the wrong direction. 

I knew I would have to put in linkages and a 2nd set of belcranks to operate the 3rd element and Swaybars.  Original I had planned to have the 2nd Bellcranks rotate through 90* and have the shock lay horizontally above the chassis.  I cut out some bosses on the steering rack to make this work before I ran into some general packaging issues.  

My new plan is to have the shock behind the rack hanging from some belcranks.   A linkage will run behind the direct shocks to drive these Bellcranks.   The belcranks will run vertical pushrods that actuate a Tbar Swaybar that runs along the car at the bottom of the "Frunk".  

So with a plan I started cutting and some fab.   I've got this big brace to reinforce the steering rack supports I cut out and to act as the other shear plane on the belcranks.   There appears to be room for everything so tonight I start o. The actual belcranks.

This truss is about the same weight as an equivalent 1.5" 16ga square tube.  So it's not nothing but it's not as bad as I thought it would be. Overall the new linkages will add around 20lbs.  But they should make the car corner flatter and resist braking loads better so it's a necessary trade-off.  

I'm excited for spring math.