Not another British car MGB V6

I thought brit stuff was junk in my younger years, preferred american iron or german stuff.  Then a few subarus turned my head.  For the last decade I keep finding abandoned MGs and triumphs at prices to low to believe.  People just keep giving them away.  First was a midget, brand new paint job, brakes, interior and a rebuilt engine in boxes.  Wife flipped out on him to get the garage back for the winter.  Dragged it home for $400.  Never got it running, family issues got in the way.  Then a spitfire, much rougher but it ran, but with 2 little kids and no garage it had to go.  That one was $300.  Got it running better and drivable but had no joy driving it.  Now this week, on my 69th birthday an abandoned project caught my eye.  A 77 B with a 3.9 V6 and a T5, 3 years of weekends spent on it.  But with 2 little kids he felt the need to get rid of it.  I skipped over it at first, figuring there was a digit missing from the price.  But not so, bought it the next day with a free delivery.  It goes into the garage tomorrow now that I made space.  Pics to follow.

That looks pretty nice already. watching to see the end result.

Gonna be fun to watch!!

This is turning into a research project and learning how to detail after a decade of storage.  I have spent a week trying to learn about the LZ9 3.9 GM motor.  Seems it was popular a long time ago for swaps but has dropped out of that status.  Right now the oil pressure seems too low and the fuel pressure seems too high.  Oil is 30 max, fuel is 60 at idle.  There is what I think is lifter clatter, thought at first it had been swapped to a solid lifter cam.  Builder spent a ton on this car, and the overall workmanship is excellent.  Driving it is a little terrifying, have not gone beyond half throttle as it runs up to redline so fast in the first 3 gears.  And with the oil pressure I am a little concerned about too much abuse.  Some pics now...

Is there any documentation as to whether it's still variable valve timing or if you put an aftermarket cam in it? 30 PSI at idle isn't bad on a 60° V6 in my opinion. What are you running for engine management?

And the interior.  Think the wheel needs refinishing unless the surface is intentional for grip.

Ohhh....  I am quite familiar with lz9 and t5 swaps...

That's what I have in my rx8!

30psi at idle is fine / good.  As long as it rises a little with rpm rise.

These engines were (I believe) 55psi fuel pressure at idle.  I wouldn't worry about that either.  Especially if the plugs look good.

Cool car!

You appear to be running a non stock throttle body.  What ecu is this thing running?

Can you post a pic from a little further away showing the entire engine and intake manifold?  

There appears to be A LOT of non stock parts on that thing!  (Like maybe the entire accessory drive).

Very little documentation on this.  I was told it has a stock ECU with an EPROM revision.  Just found an email address but it is 10 years old so more info may not be available.  I think it is a 3.5 intake which eliminates the variable intake system.  TB is who knows, engine was DBW and this is not.  The supplier was Killer B, no longer in business in that name and the guy I found has not provided the info at a level I hoped to see. Speaking of see, here we go.

And a shot of the stunning IMHO front engine mount. Maybe cropped too much but the cnc work is impressive

Throttle body

wvumtnbkr said:

Ohhh....  I am quite familiar with lz9 and t5 swaps...

 

That's what I have in my rx8!

 

30psi at idle is fine / good.  As long as it rises a little with rpm rise.

These engines were (I believe) 55psi fuel pressure at idle.  I wouldn't worry about that either.  Especially if the plugs look good.

 

Cool car!

 

You appear to be running a non stock throttle body.  What ecu is this thing running?

Do you have lifter noise too?  Not piston slap or rod knock, sounds to me like an air cooled VW needing valve adjustment.  Three days of rain here so I can't take it to my mechanic for a second opinion.

I occasionally have a lifter tick.  Goes away after it runs for a bit.

There is no real adjustment of the valves on the stock engine.

P.s. I don't believe you can be running a stock ecu with all of the changes.

My guess is it is running a 3400 based ecu.  Got a picture?

Not that it matters really, just would be helpful to understand for any future troubleshooting.

Some people run the shortstar throttle body on these.  It could be that throttle body on there.  

Box is under the dash, will pull cover off and look.  I did find some paperwork, 1227730 ECM, looks like an old GM unit with several applications.  The MG Experience forum has been very helpful, one post said with the electric water pump it may not have the stock cam and phaser.  Time to pull a valve cover.

Okay, that is an older pcm.  It should work just fine.

However, this engine either needs an external crank wheel and sensor, OR, they changed the ring on the crank.  That pcm will not work with the stock crank sensor pulse ring.

The external sensor is the easy way to in this case with all of the other changes.

I am guessing the stock cam is not in place.  There is no place for the cam phaser thingy on the front cover.

There is a specific engine that people pull cams from to swap into the vvt engines.  I would bet that is the cam in it.  Otherwise, it needs bearing spacers for the cam and then you can run almost any 60 degree engine type cam.

Good stuff!

In reply to wvumtnbkr :

It has a crank mounted wheel and sensor.  I did see a sheet from comp cams with instructions on installing and degreeing a cam.  But no paperwork on any specific cam.  They never made one for this motor, but if others fit wo knows.  Pulling a valve cover will tell me if it is mechanical, the rockers will be different.  And putting one cylinder on TDC will show me how much if any slop it has.  Other than that I would have to pull the front cover off and see what is on the front of the cam.  That is not happening.

I came really close to buying the Killer B conversion kit about 20 years ago. The FWD engine seemed so much better than the 3.4 alternative and easier to source in the second hand market. The owner of the company was a colorful personality to put it mildly.

The deal breaker was no pre-made headers  at the time, so I hung up the phone to think about it and 5 minutes later someone called to offer me a rusty Bugeye to restore.

Fuel pressure should be 58psi fixed, i do believe.

porschenut said:

In reply to wvumtnbkr :

It has a crank mounted wheel and sensor.  I did see a sheet from comp cams with instructions on installing and degreeing a cam.  But no paperwork on any specific cam.  They never made one for this motor, but if others fit wo knows.  Pulling a valve cover will tell me if it is mechanical, the rockers will be different.  And putting one cylinder on TDC will show me how much if any slop it has.  Other than that I would have to pull the front cover off and see what is on the front of the cam.  That is not happening.

Yea, the "smaller" 3.5(lx9l, and 3400(la1) and this engine(lz9) can all use the same cams as long as the new cam bearing spacers are used in the LZ9.  Lots of people running hot cams intended for the lx9 or la1 engine in these.

NOHOME said:

I came really close to buying the Killer B conversion kit about 20 years ago. The FWD engine seemed so much better than the 3.4 alternative and easier to source in the second hand market. The owner of the company was a colorful personality to put it mildly.

The deal breaker was no pre-made headers  at the time, so I hung up the phone to think about it and 5 minutes later someone called to offer me a rusty Bugeye to restore.

 

 

They did end up making some very basic headers.  They were like $500+ doll hairs.

Like 1/2 a Steve for something that took me about $75 and an afternoon to do.  I thought it was crazy expensive.

Edit:  actually it was British car conversions.

https://www.britishcarconversions.com/shop/headers

In reply to wvumtnbkr :

What about the cam sensor situation?

That also depends on the computer used, I guess.  The engine family used to have a "7X" wheel on the crank (6 evenly spaced teeth, plus a seventh) and the coil pack/module ran off of this.  Later they added a cam sensor for semi sequential injection.  For OBD-II they added a tone wheel to the harmonic damper, that did not have a missing tooth, strictly for misfire detection.  So two crank sensors and a cam sensor... and only one crank sensor went to the engine computer, the other went to the ignition module, and the ignition module sent a signal to the computer to tell it where the engine was rotationally.

It's a fascinating story of evolving priorities and refusal to do a clean sheet design for various (legitimate) reasons.

The cam sensors are all the same and in the same location  as far as I can tell.  I know they are on the la1, lx9, and lz9.

In reply to wvumtnbkr :

Yeah...that is where the owner of Killer B sent me to look for the headers. But with a bit of time to think about it all, the phone rang and my life changed with the offer of the world's rustiest Bugeye Sprite. I went down that rabbit hole instead of the engine swap one.