Opinions on best V6 - subject to conditions .......

Hi All,

I'm looking for opinions on the "best" V6 engine (transverse or in-line) considering the below parameters, I've deliberately not said what it's going in as this could cloud people's opinions:

Must be reasonably available (in the UK or USA) with spares/upgrades availability, not unobtanium.

Space is tight so must be reasonably compact when dressed with ancillaries.

Decent power e.g. I thought about the Audi 20v V6 from around 1998 but it's only 180bhp from 2.8L.

Light, aluminium construction, no iron blocks.

Can be NA or forced induction.

Value for money, i.e. doesn't have to be cheap as chips if it delivers on the above, but equally it can't cost so much that I need a mortgage to buy one.

Can be from a donor car, new crate engine or remanufactured.

So, what do you guys think?

Many thanks.

Mazda K-series with a turbo?

The GM "High Feature" V6 family would seem to hit a lot of your parameters.  The LFX has 300 hp to start, with established recipes to go a lot beyond that, and, as for availability, you could probably walk into any junkyard, point in a random direction, and find one.  FWD or RWD.  Aluminum.  As the man said, "How many do ya want?"

In reply to Stealthtercel :

Hi, this sounds interesting, just looked on Wikipedia and they are used in loads of vehicles, main ones seeming to be Saab and Cadillac.

In reply to Pete Gossett :

Isn't this mostly the same engine as used in the Mondeo ST220 and Noble?

Any of the run of the mill ~300hp V6s that almost any of the manufacturers make.

I like the 3.6 pentastar in my Grand Cherokee. Coupled with the 8 speed and its a sweetheart of a pair.

Nice thing with the LFX is the exhaust packaging. Very clean and no need to account for extra room for headers. Other good thing is they are cheap and really light. Lighter than a BP miata engine. 

What about a VQ35? Nissan made them in longitudinal and transverse orientations, so it’d be easy to find one to fit your needs. I had a 6 speed G35 sedan for a few years. The car was alright, but I absolutely loved that drivetrain. 

I really like the Ford Cyclone 3.7L in my Transit.  It may not be as compact as you want but it is pretty much everywhere. 

4.3 GM V6. It's a chopped off small block Chevy so parts are laying on every corner. Dirt cheap to buy. You cannot kill one unless you really set your mind to it. Upgrades abound for added power.

Stealthtercel said:

The GM "High Feature" V6 family would seem to hit a lot of your parameters.  The LFX has 300 hp to start, with established recipes to go a lot beyond that, and, as for availability, you could probably walk into any junkyard, point in a random direction, and find one.  FWD or RWD.  Aluminum.  As the man said, "How many do ya want?"

The 3400 is lighter, though.  The 3800 is very close in weight.  Both will easily make similar power for a lot less money, and both are a lot smaller packaging-wise.  Especially the 3400.  The High Feature is a marvel of good packaging but in the end it is a DOHC engine and that means it is taller and wider than any similar displacement pushrod engine.

One interesting thing I found out is that the all-aluminum Volvo five cylinder weighs about the same as the iron block Audi 5-cylinder, even though they are roughly the same dimensions as far as bore centers and deck heights are concerned.

bmw88rider said:

Nice thing with the LFX is the exhaust packaging. Very clean and no need to account for extra room for headers. Other good thing is they are cheap and really light. Lighter than a BP miata engine. 

I would not classify the LFX as "cheap".  I have been looking into this engine as a swap and I am seeing engines without harnesses or PCMs for $1500-2500.  You need the PCM since it is a direct injected engine with VVT on all four cams, you're not Megasquirting this one.  By my estimation you're looking at $5000-6000 easily to do a swap, just for parts, including the transmission.  Not sure yet if the PCM will happiply play without all of its other friends on the network.

I do like the idea of the lack of exhaust options as an upside.  That is kind of like saying that Diesels are a good driver's engine because they don't rev high enough to overload a transmission's synchros.

Cousin_Eddie said:

4.3 GM V6. It's a chopped off small block Chevy so parts are laying on every corner. Dirt cheap to buy. You cannot kill one unless you really set your mind to it.

...except for all the ones that broke the crankshaft by the #1 rod journal?

If packaging is really tight, pushrod or SOHC is the way to go.  The Buick 3800 is surprisingly small pushrod motor, and for an iron block  - I thought they were fairly light.  They come in NA and supercharged variety in the US and both are fairly cheap & available. 

Cousin_Eddie said:

4.3 GM V6. It's a chopped off small block Chevy so parts are laying on every corner. Dirt cheap to buy. You cannot kill one unless you really set your mind to it. Upgrades abound for added power.

That sounds interesting, do you have any details of the engine name or what it came in so I can do a bit of research?

In reply to SunbeamFanatic :

The 4.3 doesn't have a name, it's just the "truck V6".  It was used in Astro minivans (or are they SUVs?  I was told that the difference between minivans and SUVs is that minivans have sliding doors and SUVs hinge)  and Chevy S-10 Blazers and they were the base engine for Chevy pickups from '88ish through at least to 2007, probably longer.

They aren't exactly 3/4 of a small block Chevy.  They have slightly offset rod journals, which means they have narrower connecting rods, and I'd like to say the rod journals are a different diameter as well.  They are semi-oddfire engines, firing at 108/132 (IIRC) degrees between firings instead of 120 degrees like an even firing V6, or 90/150 like a shared journal 90 degree V6.

I would avoid it, personally.  There's no upgrade path, and they are large and heavy.  For the bulk and weight, you may as well go for an L33 truck engine, which can be thought of as a 5.3l LS6 but with a smaller camshaft and a much lower buy-in.  (I am easily finding L33s for $1000-1500.  Yes, it has the same heads as the LS6)

The earlier 229 and 262 V6s were a lot closer to being "3/4 of a SBC" than the 4.3 was.  A side note:  Oftentimes US automakers will differentiate between engine evolutions by how they refer to the displacement.  Buick for example had the 231, the 3.8, and the 3800, all evolutions of type but different engines.

VQ35 is a great balance of cheap, plentiful, both layouts, autos and manuals in both layouts, light, durable, and fairly compact. I love mine.

oldopelguy said:

I really like the Ford Cyclone 3.7L in my Transit.  It may not be as compact as you want but it is pretty much everywhere. 

 

I agree, the Ford 3.7 v6 is light, sturdy,  and makes good power.  Just start with a fresh water pump.

Knurled. said:

Cousin_Eddie said:

4.3 GM V6. It's a chopped off small block Chevy so parts are laying on every corner. Dirt cheap to buy. You cannot kill one unless you really set your mind to it.

 

...except for all the ones that broke the crankshaft by the #1 rod journal?

That's not something I ever saw at the dealership where I worked. I did see a lot of them that lived way longer than anyone had any right to expect them to. 

Avalon 3.0 is a good engine,cheap  easy to find

If you want compact, I think the 3800 is probably the best bet.  It is quite light for an iron block engine, and it is very compact compared to a DOHC V6.  

The upgrade path is quite extensive and even starting with an NA you can put down a buttload of power on stock internals when you feed it some boost.

It uses the GM 'metric pattern', so there should be no shortage of transmission options.

Honda v6, light and super compact and decent power.

Marked motorsports make a kit to bolt a sbc rwd trans to. Staying transverse would be alot cheaper though. 

 Isuzu

Cousin_Eddie said:

4.3 GM V6. It's a chopped off small block Chevy so parts are laying on every corner. Dirt cheap to buy. You cannot kill one unless you really set your mind to it. Upgrades abound for added power.

It’s a 90 degree V6 not a 60 degree, 

It’s iron not aluminum 

it’s pushrod 

it’s as long as a small block with the earlier style short waterpump . 

It weighs nearly what the small block 350 weighs 

frenchyd said:

Cousin_Eddie said:

4.3 GM V6. It's a chopped off small block Chevy so parts are laying on every corner. Dirt cheap to buy. You cannot kill one unless you really set your mind to it. Upgrades abound for added power.

It’s a 90 degree V6 not a 60 degree, 

It’s iron not aluminum 

it’s pushrod 

it’s as long as a small block with the earlier style short waterpump . 

It weighs nearly what the small block 350 weighs 

.... all of which are why I had to grit my teeth and suggest that if one were to bother with a 4.3, an aluminum truck 5.3 would be a much better option.  The actual purchase price of the engine is a drop in the bucket compared to all the incidentals, and the 5.3 and 4.3 would use 90% of the same incidentals.  Same trans and therefore same everything downstream of the trans, same PCM, same software needed to make the PCM play nice when standalone.

If one is not planning on running A/C or power steering, you can make the truck engines shorter for cheap by buying a Camaro/Firebird harmonic damper and alternator for $120-150 total outlay.  The F-body alternator bolts straight to the engine.  You'd need to still use some sort of idller pulley to get the belt over the water pump.

Ugh...  I feel really unclean.  I just sort-of made a rational slippery-slope "OMG just LS it" argument.  I need to take a shower for about three hours, with all the whiskey.