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engiekev
engiekev HalfDork
5/19/21 6:40 a.m.

Starting this thread off my redundant and excessive "What Car?" thread, we ended up picking out the Cayenne Diesel for our next sofroader overlander #instagramInfluencer vehicle.

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/what-car-yes-another-off-road-luxobarge/182625/page3/

Rough Plan for the build:

  • Dealer service for recalls/campaigns - Done!
  • Oil leaks: try to get covered under extended emissions warranty
    • No go! Dealer says its a "seapage" and not a leak. I've heard this is a common response, since the fix is full engine-out and replacing all seals.
  • A/T tire upgrade
  • Skid plate fab
  • Roof racks for kayaks and other fun stuff
  • Awning mount for OEM roof side rails

engiekev
engiekev HalfDork
5/19/21 6:53 a.m.

For the A/T tire upgrade, I wanted to find a "one-up" size tire to add a bit more sidewall.  Stock tire size is 255/55r18 with the OEM 18" wheels this came with.  Turbo and S models came with even larger 19" and 20" tires, not so good.

I did briefly consider buying some Braid Winrace 18" wheels, but it just wasn't in the budget right now at ~$500 a wheel, 18" off road wheels are not cheap!

255/55R18 upsized sidewall is 255/60R18, unfortunately there are nearly 0 tires in A/T category with that size.  Next step up is 265/60R18 which has tons more options, but quite a bit thicker.  I took a gamble and ordered some Falken Wildpeak AT3 in that size since there was a great price on Walmart, free shipping and free returns to any store.  Based on some research, 265/60r18 should fit a 958 cayenne, however not as likely on a diesel unfortunately!  Due to the intercoolers being packaged in the fender wells, there isn't as much room.  

I checked with the current 255/55r18 Michelin's, and there appears to be at most 0.6-0.75" clearance.  265/60r18 are 1.6" bigger, so right on the limit.  There doesn't appear to be much room at all past the fender liner to push it back either.  That means I have to return the Wildpeak AT3s, and go back to stock size.  The "Otis" build that runs Alcan rally is on stock size with no issues, so we'll be fine!

Unfortunately, there aren't as many options with 255/55R18, here are the slim pickings:

Falken Wildpeak A/T Trail - seems like more of an onroad focused tire, new, so not a lot of reviews out there yet.  

BFG KO/2 - not a huge fan, had these on our Xterra and not impressed by the wet and snow performance at colder temps

Toyo Open Country AT III - another new tire, seems to be going after BFG KO/2 market, lots of marketing fluff about better wet and snow performance but not a lot of data on that yet

The other option is to go down a width and up a sidewall.  245/60R18 is 0.4" narrower roughly, but 0.6" taller.  There seems to be more tires available, and cheaper, so this might be a good option.

Professor_Brap (Forum Supporter)
Professor_Brap (Forum Supporter) UltraDork
5/19/21 6:55 a.m.

I'm pro narrower and taller option. 

engiekev
engiekev HalfDork
5/19/21 7:13 a.m.
Professor_Brap (Forum Supporter) said:

I'm pro narrower and taller option. 

Falken Wildpeak Trail is cheaper in that size, $178 per tire, but only comes in SL load rating. 255/55r18 comes in XL load rating. Is that important for off roading (some seem to think XL will hold up better?)? It will be important for towing, since we'll be using this to tow quite a bit and eventually tow a vehicle trailer.

Toyo AT III is the same price roughly $237 for 245/60r18 and $231 for 255/55r18.  Both are XL load rating.

I wish Cooper Discoverer AT3 4S came in those sizes, I loved that tire on our Pathfinder and they're very affordable.

I think I'm going to wait until Memorial Day to see if there are any sales going on with rebates.  Whatever tire brand has rebates at Discount Tire is usually what I go for.

Placemotorsports
Placemotorsports HalfDork
5/19/21 7:45 a.m.

Lots of folks jumping from BFG to Falken.  They handle great in all weather and are much lighter.  They may not last as long as BFG but they also cost less.

Professor_Brap (Forum Supporter)
Professor_Brap (Forum Supporter) UltraDork
5/19/21 7:49 a.m.

In reply to Placemotorsports :

Bfg wear like iron and have the worst raw grip from any tire I have ever delt with. 

engiekev
engiekev HalfDork
5/19/21 7:53 a.m.
Placemotorsports said:

Lots of folks jumping from BFG to Falken.  They handle great in all weather and are much lighter.  They may not last as long as BFG but they also cost less.

Much lighter! The Falken Wildpeak Trail I'm looking at isnt really comparable to BFG KO2, the Wildpeak AT3 is, but in the same size the KO2 is 50lbs, Falken AT3 is 41lbs, quite a big difference if you add up all 4 and its rotating mass.

Lots of subie folks like the Wildpeak Trail as an alternative to Yokohama Geolander for a mostly on-road tire with occasional off-roading.  Its probably the better choice for our driving, lots of highway to get to the trails.

AAZCD (Forum Supporter)
AAZCD (Forum Supporter) Dork
5/19/21 8:36 a.m.

I have had two 1st gen Cayennes and a '12 TDI Touareg ("Tow Pig") and have really grown to love the Cayenne/Touareg platform. Every trip I do with the Touareg, I'm still amazed at the mpg and fuel range for such a capable SUV. I'm following along to see how the build progresses. For you, here's a look at a skid plate installed on a Cayenne:

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/fahrbericht/porsche-cayenne-transsyberia-besuch-aus-sibirien/

docwyte
docwyte PowerDork
5/19/21 8:38 a.m.

I had the BFG KO2's on my old Lexus GX470 and they did great here in Colorado with the cold and snow.  Our 15 Cayenne Diesel drops out of CPO warranty end of June.  It's going to the dealer next week for a thorough inspection so they can fix anything that's wrong. 

I'd take yours to another dealer and see if they'll fix the oil leak.  My dealer told me that the emissions warranty covers pretty much the entire engine, so theoretically they should cover the oil leaks. 

E-Motion Engineering has a bunch of overlanding stuff for the cayenne.  I watched the Matt Farah review of their diesel but couldn't find the front bumper they had on their cayenne on their website.  In a few years I'm going to grab the cayenne diesel back from my wife and run it as my DD.  Not sure if I'll keep my current setup of 20" 3 seasons and 19" snows or try and go with a 18" AT setup instead.

engiekev
engiekev HalfDork
5/19/21 9:16 a.m.
docwyte said:

I had the BFG KO2's on my old Lexus GX470 and they did great here in Colorado with the cold and snow.  Our 15 Cayenne Diesel drops out of CPO warranty end of June.  It's going to the dealer next week for a thorough inspection so they can fix anything that's wrong. 

I'd take yours to another dealer and see if they'll fix the oil leak.  My dealer told me that the emissions warranty covers pretty much the entire engine, so theoretically they should cover the oil leaks. 

E-Motion Engineering has a bunch of overlanding stuff for the cayenne.  I watched the Matt Farah review of their diesel but couldn't find the front bumper they had on their cayenne on their website.  In a few years I'm going to grab the cayenne diesel back from my wife and run it as my DD.  Not sure if I'll keep my current setup of 20" 3 seasons and 19" snows or try and go with a 18" AT setup instead.

Time for a tune once your warranty runs out!

https://kermatdi.com/i-2657-porsche-cayenne-tdi-tuning.html

I'm a bit miffed by the dealer response on the oil leak as well, I've talked with the service manager at that dealership multiple times and sometimes he stated it would all be fixed and sometimes not.  This manager also stated the emissions warranty expires at 100K, which is false, one of the service advisors at the same dealer confimred it's good for the 4yr/48k extension (2023 and 130k Miles in my case) .

I spoke with a different dealer service mgr and they stated the same thing, flip-flopped on answers both times.  The next closest dealer in Ann Arbor I haven't talked to yet, but I'm guessing I'll get a similar response.

The warranty does explicitly state the entire long block is covered, to me that includes oil leaks.  I've read that some dealers and Porsche itself is denying the emissions warranty for oil leaks and stating they are "seepage", since the fix is a total engine-out replacement of all seals on the engine. That's a 1-2month job depending on the shop, maybe we'll save that for the winter.

"Parts Covered Under Extended Warranty:

The emissions control system warranty shall cover the following parts or systems:

• The entire exhaust gas after treatment system, including the Diesel Oxidation Catalytic Convertor (“DOC”), the Selective Catalytic Reduction (“SCR”) Catalyst, the Diesel Particulate Filter (“DPF”), the dosing injector and other DEF system components, any exhaust flap, and all sensors and actuators;

• The entire fuel system, including fuel pumps, high pressure common rail, fuel injectors, and all sensors and actuators; • The Exhaust Gas Recirculation (“EGR”) system, including EGR valve, EGR bypass valve, EGR cooler, EGR filter, all related hoses and pipes, and all sensors and actuators;

• The turbocharger system including all related hoses and pipes, all sensors and actuators;

• The engine control unit (“ECU”) and the transmission control unit (“TCU”); and

• The On-Board Diagnostic (“OBD”) system, and any malfunctions detected by the OBD system.

Additionally, the engine long block warranty shall cover the engine sub-assembly that consists of the assembled block, crankshaft, cylinder head, camshaft, and valve train."

engiekev
engiekev HalfDork
5/19/21 9:20 a.m.

hagerty recently posted this video of Farah driving one of Emotions builds:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oS7Zy-vGp44

I talked with Joey a bit, sounds like they will NOT sell you the KW suspension separately, or most any of the other parts. You have to send your truck to get built.  They do sell a "lift kit" with fancy spacers for $1400, not worth it in my opinion:

https://emotionengineering.co/collections/cayenne

Forge sells a nice kit for only $300:

https://www.forgemotorsportoverland.com/collections/vw-touareg-porsche-cayenne/products/vw-touareg-porsche-cayenne-lift-kit

$269 here:

https://www.urotuning.com/products/forge-overland-vw-touaregt2-audi-q7-porsche-cayenne-lift-kit?variant=31564377391159

I'm very tempted for that spacer kit, but I don't want to ruin the on road handling.  On dirt it feels plenty high enough, we won't be taking this rock crawling.  Michigan is very flat, not like Utah where Emotion is based out of.

engiekev
engiekev HalfDork
5/19/21 9:27 a.m.

Pics of the leaks for reference

Oil filter housing, front case:

 

Valve cover, pass side, lots of oil.  Not sure how the dealer thinks this is just seepage!

 

And for fun, how the 265/60R18's look next to the car, a bit too big

 

engiekev
engiekev HalfDork
5/19/21 9:30 a.m.

I feel like "Otis" is a better representation of what I need, and the Emotion Engineering build is what I want.  They're on stock size tires, albeit they do have the factory air suspension, and have no troubles.

https://rennlist.com/forums/cayenne-955-957-2003-2010/968788-meet-otis.html

ShawneeCreek
ShawneeCreek HalfDork
5/19/21 12:22 p.m.
engiekev said:
Professor_Brap (Forum Supporter) said:

I'm pro narrower and taller option. 

Falken Wildpeak Trail is cheaper in that size, $178 per tire, but only comes in SL load rating. 255/55r18 comes in XL load rating. Is that important for off roading (some seem to think XL will hold up better?)? It will be important for towing, since we'll be using this to tow quite a bit and eventually tow a vehicle trailer.

Toyo AT III is the same price roughly $237 for 245/60r18 and $231 for 255/55r18.  Both are XL load rating.

I wish Cooper Discoverer AT3 4S came in those sizes, I loved that tire on our Pathfinder and they're very affordable.

I think I'm going to wait until Memorial Day to see if there are any sales going on with rebates.  Whatever tire brand has rebates at Discount Tire is usually what I go for.

XL vs. SL shouldn't be a concern. What you need to pay attention to is the load rating. Your stock 255/55R18 XL tires have a load rating of 109 (or 2,271 lbs per tire). Just make sure that whatever tire size you pick to replace the stock ones have a rating of 109 or larger. Your 245/60R18 would not work as a standard load because they are 105 (or 2,039 lbs per tire). But the same size as an XL is rated at 109 and would be fine.

- Sean

docwyte
docwyte PowerDork
5/19/21 12:46 p.m.

In reply to engiekev :

Well, it's out of the CPO warranty but still under the emissions warranty.  Since that covers basically the engine, I don't really want to tune it yet.  If the turbo blows the dealer can (rightfully) point to the tune and deny coverage.  I was going to tune the TCU, a guy on Club touareg flashes them back to "pre fix" tune, which apparently helps drivability quite a bit.  Then I saw in your quote that the TCU is covered under the emissions warranty.  Ugh, that TCU is $$$ if it needs to be replaced and tuning it will void that warranty.

Interesting that E-motion won't sell bits and bobs.  There's NO chance I'm sending them my cayenne for them to "build".  All I would want are some of the skid plates and the front bumper.  Those, paired with a set of AT tires would do everything I'd want to do.

Good luck getting a dealer to fix the oil leaks, I know others have gotten it done but probably under the CPO extension, not the emissions one.  Our emissions warranty is good until July of 2025 or 120k miles.

docwyte
docwyte PowerDork
5/19/21 12:57 p.m.

BTW, the transfer case on the diesel is different than the other 958's and isn't prone to destruction like the others are.  to my knowledge, there isn't a recall on it at all.  I'll ask the dealer when I bring ours in for the warranty inspection next week

engiekev
engiekev HalfDork
5/19/21 2:32 p.m.
docwyte said:

BTW, the transfer case on the diesel is different than the other 958's and isn't prone to destruction like the others are.  to my knowledge, there isn't a recall on it at all.  I'll ask the dealer when I bring ours in for the warranty inspection next week

Oh that is good to know! The service mgr mentioned they are different, but I was not sure.  Is it still good practice to replace trans fluid with the latest Porsche or Ravenol fluid on the Diesels?

As for the oil leak, would have to prove its "emitting" oil enough to be covered under emissions warranty.   I have no idea what oil the used dealer put in during the oil change, maybe it will be worthwhile putting some Rotella in the engine.

docwyte
docwyte PowerDork
5/20/21 7:53 a.m.

In reply to engiekev :

Mobil 1 ESP 5w30 is what to use in these.  Yes, it's a PITA to find, I usually order it from ECS Tuning or sometimes NAPA has it. 

Our transmission has been perfect, has 71k miles on it.  I may flush it at some point, I think Porsche says to service it at 125k miles?

AAZCD (Forum Supporter)
AAZCD (Forum Supporter) Dork
5/20/21 8:04 a.m.
docwyte said:

In reply to engiekev :

Mobil 1 ESP 5w30 is what to use in these.  Yes, it's a PITA to find, I usually order it from ECS Tuning or sometimes NAPA has it. 

Our transmission has been perfect, has 71k miles on it.  I may flush it at some point, I think Porsche says to service it at 125k miles?

I could not find enough euro-diesel oil locally. +1 for buying it all online ahead of time:

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-assembled-by-ecs-parts/2013-2016-cayenne-diesel-oil-change-kit/95810722220kt/

When I was searching for oil I read a quoted reply from Shell stating specifically that Rotella was not compliant with the spec for the TDIs. Pretty sure it was in the Bob is the oil guy forums.

engiekev
engiekev HalfDork
5/20/21 8:44 a.m.
AAZCD (Forum Supporter) said:
docwyte said:

In reply to engiekev :

Mobil 1 ESP 5w30 is what to use in these.  Yes, it's a PITA to find, I usually order it from ECS Tuning or sometimes NAPA has it. 

Our transmission has been perfect, has 71k miles on it.  I may flush it at some point, I think Porsche says to service it at 125k miles?

I could not find enough euro-diesel oil locally. +1 for buying it all online ahead of time:

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-assembled-by-ecs-parts/2013-2016-cayenne-diesel-oil-change-kit/95810722220kt/

When I was searching for oil I read a quoted reply from Shell stating specifically that Rotella was not compliant with the spec for the TDIs. Pretty sure it was in the Bob is the oil guy forums.

Very good info, this is why I love GRM!  We bought the vehicle from a used car dept Ford Dealership and they performed an oil change before we bought it, I highly doubt they used Mobil1 ESP, so an oil change is likely in the cards.

I did order the VW/Audi dipstick, cheap enough and can use it when the engine is cold, unlike the cluster oil level indication.

Has anyone used oil extractors, if so is it worth the expense? They would seem more useful if you could also use them in reverse to pump gear oil for differentials and transfer cases.

And, is there any way to reset the oil change interval other than Porsche Tool or Durametric?

RennList has a good DIY section, including oil change:

https://rennlist.com/forums/cayenne-diy/1035537-958-cayenne-diy-diesel-oil-change.html

OjaiM5
OjaiM5 HalfDork
5/20/21 8:51 a.m.

I ran a 265/65 r18 (pictured) and a 265/60 on my MT Cayenne. Both worked great. My only gripe was the road noise with the goodyear wrangler. 

 

engiekev
engiekev HalfDork
5/20/21 9:09 a.m.

That looks awesome!  

958 have less wheel well room than the 955/957 unfortunately, even more so with the diesel 958 (intercoolers).  I'll grab a pic tonight.

I'll be swinging by Team Illuminata's new shop to test fit one wheel with the 265/60R18, and also see if we can make a 17" Braid wheel fit.  That would be the real ticket, downsize to 17" and maintain same diameter as the 255/55R18 stock size.  There might be room, as the OEM wheel tapers down in size near the caliper.

Joey did state that 265/65r18 should fit with a 2" lift, but I'm not seeing that since the largest diameter of the tire will still be near the fender liner.  In their build, it looks like EMotion totally removes the fender liner and their undertray/exoskeleton takes up that space. 

I will definitely be planning to mirror their mudflap concept, more to come on that.

docwyte
docwyte PowerDork
5/20/21 11:35 a.m.

In reply to engiekev :

I regularly use an oil extractor on my Cayenne but I know AAZCD had issues trying to use one on his Touareg.  I love mine, makes an oil change easy, quick and clean. 

I wouldn't want to remove the fender liners, too much crap on the roads here in the winter time.

engiekev
engiekev HalfDork
5/20/21 12:29 p.m.
docwyte said:

I had the BFG KO2's on my old Lexus GX470 and they did great here in Colorado with the cold and snow.  Our 15 Cayenne Diesel drops out of CPO warranty end of June.  It's going to the dealer next week for a thorough inspection so they can fix anything that's wrong. 

I'd take yours to another dealer and see if they'll fix the oil leak.  My dealer told me that the emissions warranty covers pretty much the entire engine, so theoretically they should cover the oil leaks. 

E-Motion Engineering has a bunch of overlanding stuff for the cayenne.  I watched the Matt Farah review of their diesel but couldn't find the front bumper they had on their cayenne on their website.  In a few years I'm going to grab the cayenne diesel back from my wife and run it as my DD.  Not sure if I'll keep my current setup of 20" 3 seasons and 19" snows or try and go with a 18" AT setup instead.

Eurowise sells similar looking bumper and skid plate kits, actually pretty good prices for what you get. 

https://shop.eurowise.com/category-s/340.htm

I will likely design my own skid plates in CAD, send to coworker who has a plasma cutter and gigantic powder coater, get them cut and coated.  If that works out, might be able to do some small runs for GRM folks.

AND they sell this Bilstein Coilover kit, quite pricey, but comparable to the KW Suspension kit that is out there and not really offroad focused:

https://shop.eurowise.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=EWORBIL2085

docwyte
docwyte PowerDork
5/20/21 12:43 p.m.

In reply to engiekev :

Certainly looks like the "Porsche" tax is in full effect with that Eurowise stuff! I also see they haven't made their front bumper thing for the 958's, only the 955/957's.  Booo....

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