Puzzler of the Day - Part Duex

My first shot at this went to live with the fishes, so I'm giving it another try.

2002 F53 Ford motorhome chassis.  V10, 47K miles, owned since new, basically been trouble free.  Left home last Wednesday to go north to see James Taylor (yeah, I'm old).  Got ready to head back south on Saturday, turned the key and got nothing.  Dash lights all came on, but both even a click.

Checked the headlights - bright.  Tapped all of the engine relays with a screwdriver - nothing.  Went gorilla and hit the starter and solenoid with a hammer - no change.

Was about ready to call for a tow, then decided to try energizing the solenoid manually.  Turned on the key, set the brake, and slid under the engine with my Big Damn Screwdriver.  Bridged the contacts and it cranked and started immediately and ran great.

So far as I can tell, that rules out the engine electrical, including the starter, solenoid, and battery. What's left?  Ignition switch?  Mystery relay?  A lockout switch? Possession? 

I'm fairly certain I can it get home, I'm just getting tired of crawling under this thing after every stop.

Any ideas?

Obviously, don't stop.

I've seen the start wire to the solenoid break on several cars over the years. It's floating around hot exhaust and is usually not well supported. That would be my first guess...

The starter on the V10 is away from the exhaust.  I'll check the wire routing and make sure nothing got cooked.

In reply to CJ :

Try starting it in neutral.

Robbie saved my Ass by suggesting that when I was broke down in Rapid City S.D.

Blew a fuse too.

It was a failed neutral safety switch.

The only Ford truck I ever owned was a '92 but it had a similar problem. On my truck it was the ignition switch. I just checked on RockAuto and, wouldn't you know it, your 10 year younger truck uses one that looks identical. I seem to remember these being a somewhat common failure item. Common enough that they stock them at most auto parts stores. Should be up under the column with a big multi-pin connector going to it. 

Neutral safety switch is also a safe bet; I've had two Volvos (of different eras) pull that trick on me with similar effect to what you describe. 

orthoxstice said:

The only Ford truck I ever owned was a '92 but it had a similar problem. On my truck it was the ignition switch. I just checked on RockAuto and, wouldn't you know it, your 10 year younger truck uses one that looks identical. I seem to remember these being a somewhat common failure item. Common enough that they stock them at most auto parts stores. Should be up under the column with a big multi-pin connector going to it. 

Neutral safety switch is also a safe bet; I've had two Volvos (of different eras) pull that trick on me with similar effect to what you describe. 

My money is on the ignition switch. Even if it isn't, toss a spare in the glove box for when it does fail. 

I had a similar issue on my e350 recently. Wouldn't start. Wouldn't even crank. Ham fisted the shifter through all the gears and then it fired off no problem. I think something was misadjusted range sensor/switch.

Sorry, I got home fine after crawling under a few more times and then immediately left for the other end of the state for one of my retirement commitments. 

I did check on the wiring route the last time i started it.  Miles of room, so probably not fried wires.  Will be back on Tuesday night and will start again Wednesday.

Going through your *excellent* ideas, I did try sawing on the shifter and starting in neutral on my own.  No joy there either.

I will try my FLAPS for a ignition switch and neutral safety switch when I get back. 

Are Standard Motor Products still OK for switches?  Any to avoid? I have some inner ear issues and they don't respond real well to me standing on my head; I don't want to do this more often than I have to...

Thanks again for your ideas!

PS - my bride was amazed that I could start the MH with a screwdriver.  I had to come clean that it was a result of owning years of crapbuckets and playing with British cars in my youth (sometimes the British cars fit in both categories and sometimes not).  Wonder how many of you had a big plastic-handled screwdriver behind the seat so you could reach up and slap your SU fuel pump up in the wheel well when the contacts stuck?

Ahh, the joys of a misspent youth ;=)

Take care

Am I missing something or wouldnt this likely be a bad solenoid??   Check that you're getting voltage at the solenoid when you turn the key. 
 

if you are but nothing is coming out then bad solenoid.  If you are not then go upstream. 

I've  had a problem with a bad connection somewhere in the wiring harness. I was getting full voltage at the ignition switch, but only 8v or so at the starter solenoid. It wasn't enough power to trigger the solenoid. I just cobbled together a solution by using that low voltage signal to trigger a relay that I ran directly from the battery. It worked well enough until I sold the car

I had a long handled skinny screwdriver for a few months to start my Vette. I could reach down between the header pipes and bridge the solenoid contacts to start it. My colleagues at school found it fascinating.

In reply to jfryjfry :

This is what I understand - one side of the starter circuit (1/0 gauge wire) goes directly to the hot battery post from the starter solenoid. The solenoid is energized by power from the ignition switch when in the start position, engaging the starter gear with the ring gear, while simultaneously powering the starter field coils and spinning the engine over.

If I can manually engage the starter solenoid and cause the engine to spin over and start, I can't see how that doesn't eliminate the battery, starter, starter solenoid, and the primary wiring from the battery as possible causes of the problem. 

I can absolutely can see the problem could be the wiring between the starter solenoid and the switch, whatever relays that exist in that circuit, the neutral safety switch, the actual ignition switch, as well as the power / fuse that provides power to the ignition switch.

I suspect we are saying the same thing? 

Thanks for responding.

Take care

If you jump the solenoid and it works but using the  key doesn't it could be the solenoid.  And they are definitely known to go bad.  In fact I would buy a spare because they are usually junk these days and don't last very long. 
 

again, check for voltage at the solenoid on the signal wire when someone turns it to start.  Obviously make sure the car is in park and you are in a safe place in case it actually turns the motor over. 
 

if you have power but no starter action then it's your solenoid

In reply to CJ :

When you hit the solenoid contacts with a screwdriver are you doing the big screw on ones? Those are the load contacts and not the control contacts. So if that's the case you're bypassing the solenoid completely and it could be bad. So could the other things you listed of course. 

Well, I got back from my 2nd trip feeling crappy, coughing, and did I mention coughing?  Went to the doc who did an x-ray and gave me the great news that I had pneumonia.  Took a couple of weeks of meds to start feeling semi-human, but I survived, so I got that going for me which is nice.

Finally felt like working on the motorhome a couple of days ago and pulled the switch so I could be sure I got the right one. 

Installed the new one today and it started right up. 

Thanks again for the advice.

Sucks about the pneumonia but I'm glad you got the starting issues figured out!