I have a question regarding the startup. I am rebuilding a 2016 AMG M177 (the new 4.0l Hot Vee one)engine and we are nearly ready to start it up. Do you know how to build the oil pressure before the ignition is applied? Can we just crank it over and the computer take care of it or do we need to disable the ignition somehow? What did you do?
According to the AMG tech, as long as things are lubricated properly when assembled (Mercedes specified just oil for the whole top end on the M156) it should work fine. I was terrified that this wasn't correct and it was going to eat itself, but apparently MB knows what they're talking about. The STAR manual I was using had a billion foot notes about lubricants, they were very clear about what to use when and where.
It was reassuring to have a tech who had M156 experience following the thread, but I had a good enough experience with the service writers and the techs that I wouldn't hesitate to call or drop by and ask them if I had a question like this. I didn't see eye to eye with corporate, but the guys in the trenches were awesome.
In reply to mazdeuce: Thanks for that, we lubricated the bottom end real well. So should just fire up, does the CPU wait till it detects oil pressure before it applies spark? Our techs are really helpful here too, but nobody in the country has had one of these apart before, MB just swap out the whole engine!! We had to buy a cam lock set as nobody had one! The engine is a beautiful thing!
Your engine is fine with zero oil pressure until it spooges all of the oil out from the bearings. That's what an oil's "film strength" means. You have a few seconds to get oil pressure before you cause damage, and the engine will have no problem getting oil pressure in <5 seconds.
It's of course safer to do the power-drill-in-distributor-hole trick to give it oil pressure before it runs, but it still should be totally fine to start right away. That's why you use assembly lube/oil when assembling it, to lubricate everything during the first 10 seconds before you have normal oil pressure and flow.
You could always pull the fuel pump relay and crank until the battery dies. Then, put relay back in, charge battery, and fire.
Thanks for that. Oh great idea, one of the techs suggested that too. I was thinking of getting a computer scanner and cable, what would you recommend, I believe the engine requires a computer to fill the coolant!
Donbo wrote: Thanks for that. Oh great idea, one of the techs suggested that too. I was thinking of getting a computer scanner and cable, what would you recommend, I believe the engine requires a computer to fill the coolant!
I would think that if I was rebuilding such a new and complex engine (why and from what car?) I would have a MB tech on speed dial and have the applicable FSMs before I turned the first bolt. For sure I would know the MB specified lubrication procedure.
The scanner I had earlier in the thread (I can go outside to look for it if you need me to) was able to read and reset all of the systems on the R63. What it couldn't do was activate the checks where it has the car perform a certain task. For instance it can read and reset the fault code for the air suspension, but it can't remotely activate the compressor to fill the system after service. When 'people' say you need the computer to do a bunch of things on the R63, what they really mean is that something like a low coolant warning is persistent and needs to be reset with a reader capable of that. I know there are readers capable of the full system stuff, but they're $$$. I'd start by bringing doughnuts to the local MB service department and work from there.
In reply to Donbo:
Old early 2000's Mercedes you just cycled the key without starting to run the coolant circulation pumps, topped off and repeated a dozen times. That's how my '01 Clk was
mck1117 wrote: It's of course safer to do the power-drill-in-distributor-hole trick to give it oil pressure before it runs, but it still should be totally fine to start right away. That's why you use assembly lube/oil when assembling it, to lubricate everything during the first 10 seconds before you have normal oil pressure and flow.
This works when there is an actual distributor in the car, which may not be the case with this motor.
In reply to Jerry From LA:
That's my point. The oil pump fits over the front of the crankshaft (or it's chain drive), so you can't spin it without turning over the engine. There are very few OHC engines that can use that trick.
Dusterbd13 wrote: You could always pull the fuel pump relay and crank until the battery dies. Then, put relay back in, charge battery, and fire.
While this seems like it might be a good idea on the surface the reality is that if the engine is put together correctly it should fire up right away and build oil pressure almost instantly whereas at the slower cranking speed you could wipe all of the pre-lube before the oil pressure comes up. That's why the factory service manual says to just start it.
When Doug DeMuro recently posted that he bought an AMG wagon, i couldn't help but think that he had also semi-recently driven an R63. I'd be willing to bet a small amount of money there was some small connection. Then again, I too have driven an R63 (nay, the R63) and still don't have a super-wagon of any kind, unless you count the fact that i already owned 'fast' minivans and a hybrid family sedan that was as fast as my 911. I guess i was weird enough not to need conversion. Well, i did buy a broken R129 Benz, so there's that! Unfortunately, i 'fixed' it with a piece of wire in 10 minutes after determining that i was cleverer than anyone i could find on a Benz forum in 30 minutes worth of searching anyway. Definitely not the makings of an amazing forum thread.
Anyway, this is what's right about the internet! Bravo!
So anyway, here's a cheaply fixed fast V8 Benz that's not a station wagon, but it IS at least hauling car parts.
onemanarmy wrote: I would think that if I was rebuilding such a new and complex engine (why and from what car?) I would have a MB tech on speed dial and have the applicable FSMs before I turned the first bolt. For sure I would know the MB specified lubrication procedure.
Srsly? It's just a DOHC V8. Welcome to the 1920s. There's nothing at all special about it aside from the AMG badge. There is nothing going on here that isn't in every other car made today. Heck, by modern standards, this engine is low tech, as it doesn't have direct injection, a variable displacement oil pump, or segregated block and cylinder head cooling. It also doesn't have variable displacement but that is mostly a bypassed backwater in the face of what can be achieved with direct injection.
mazdeuce wrote: The scanner I had earlier in the thread (I can go outside to look for it if you need me to) was able to read and reset all of the systems on the R63. What it couldn't do was activate the checks where it has the car perform a certain task. For instance it can read and reset the fault code for the air suspension, but it can't remotely activate the compressor to fill the system after service. When 'people' say you need the computer to do a bunch of things on the R63, what they really mean is that something like a low coolant warning is persistent and needs to be reset with a reader capable of that. I know there are readers capable of the full system stuff, but they're $$$. I'd start by bringing doughnuts to the local MB service department and work from there.
That, in a nutshell, is the difference between a passive code-reader, and a scantool that can do bidirectional controls. A code reader just tells you what the computer stored as a fault code and is only marginally more useful than throwing chicken bones on some runes to divine what is going on.
A scantool can direct the computer to do various tests and procedures and is a useful aid in diagnostics.
Hey Mazdeuce- been following this feed for months and was curious about your R63 and if it had the bottle opener/ champagne de-foiler built into the front cup holders like the R500 has. I took one in trade a few years back and the driver told me it was their favorite feature no one knew about. In case you don't know about it, try lifting up on the divider between the two front cup holders.
In reply to Nocoben:
What? My mom has an R500 (with 200,000 miles!) and I never knew about this.
In reply to Nocoben:
I was surprised that Doug didn't mention it in his review. I haven't had to open champagne with it yet, but it's nice to know that the option is there. 
The cam sensor I needed to replace looks like the black plug you can see here, but it's not the easy to see and change top one, it's the impossible to see and even harder to reach lower one, because of course it is.
That ten minute job took twenty minutes of cursing, but we're back on the road with no oil leaks! 
Driving the kids to meet the teacher, grocery shopping, normal supervan stuff. Life is good.
Oooh, more deets about the R129 please! I love those things.
Its a c63 amg got water in the engine and hydro locked. We just turned the ignition and boom dugadugaduga beautiful music was heard. No codes! Hey but then engine warning light, MB tech cleared it and after test run and a few resets from the tech, faulty - wait for it Cam sensor! Swapped cams and error moved with the sensor, so new sensor required, should be an easy fix. Thanks Guys.
mazdeuce wrote: The scanner I had earlier in the thread (I can go outside to look for it if you need me to) was able to read and reset all of the systems on the R63. What it couldn't do was activate the checks where it has the car perform a certain task. For instance it can read and reset the fault code for the air suspension, but it can't remotely activate the compressor to fill the system after service. When 'people' say you need the computer to do a bunch of things on the R63, what they really mean is that something like a low coolant warning is persistent and needs to be reset with a reader capable of that. I know there are readers capable of the full system stuff, but they're $$$. I'd start by bringing doughnuts to the local MB service department and work from there.
My compete STAR clone setup, including used Dell laptop, was ~$600 shipped fully functional right out of the box. Not sure what your scanner cost, but STAR is invaluable imo when working on this stuff. It's pretty amazing what you can do once you start digging into it.
Oooh, more deets about the R129 please! I love those things.
Ok, one more.. $900! Supposedly it was originally $95000.
Somehow i doubt the equally expensive R63 will ever get into that price bracket (even while broken) but if they do, im sure as hell buying one. 
In reply to Donbo:
Hey here is a Guy with the same problem as me https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKaKeEizu5I then there is a follow youtube a couple of days later where he says MB want 77K that's US$ for a new motor, wont fix the broken one!! I can't understand how all the water ends up in the engine.
Knurled wrote:onemanarmy wrote: I would think that if I was rebuilding such a new and complex engine (why and from what car?) I would have a MB tech on speed dial and have the applicable FSMs before I turned the first bolt. For sure I would know the MB specified lubrication procedure.Srsly? It's just a DOHC V8. Welcome to the 1920s. There's nothing at all special about it aside from the AMG badge. There is nothing going on here that isn't in every other car made today. Heck, by modern standards, this engine is low tech, as it doesn't have direct injection, a variable displacement oil pump, or segregated block and cylinder head cooling. It also doesn't have variable displacement but that is mostly a bypassed backwater in the face of what can be achieved with direct injection.
What? yea, the engine layout is a DOHC V8, but what about the special oils, torqueing procedures, fancy expensive code readers, various sensors, computer programming, specific voltage requirements of said sensors and computers, etc?....but you go ahead and rebuild a MB 6.3 with a 1920 tool set and report back.
Special oils have no bearing on a rebuild, torque procedures are all "fancy" if you've never had to look at a FSM, and literally everything else is standard on modern fuel-injected engines. Special cam and crank tools are required for nearly every OHC engine out there when it's getting re-timed.
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