Sand rail autocross/skid pad build (or, why my wife hates me)

Kenny_McCormic wrote: Why not mount it on the bottom? Seems that would be preferable, lets you potentially drop the seats a touch more, cleans up airflow underneath, adds a layer of protection to the tubes, toes-steering shaft clearance, etc.

My main distaste for it is actually irrelevant to the intended use. When used offroad mounting the floor to the bottom causes there to be a bunch of dirt/sand/mud traps topside which make things harder to clean.

As for some of the other reasons, using aluminum to protect steel tubes is probably not the way to go :) The seats will still be getting mounted to the frame not the floor (there will be supports welded under the floor where the seats mount so they seats really wouldn't be mounting lower.

Yes it would clean up airflow underneath but I wasn't thinking of that at the time. My preference, and much of it is just aesthetics, has always been top mounted.

tb wrote: Second: knowing how you do things / your knowledge base a little I am surprised you are not looking into airbag suspension. Seems like a pretty easy and cool way to adjust balance and quick to make adjustments for damping & preload...

Realized I never answered this bit and I had meant to. My first thought is to throw out my usual cost and complexity mantra but I have the bags, the compressors, the tanks, and everything else sitting here on a shelf so that really doesn't fly.

To be honest, I know great strides have been made in using air in performance applications but I still have trouble thinking of the 2 in the same application. Purely a mental hurdle I need to get over from the days when air ride was for stylin' but not performance. So I guess there's really no reason I haven't considered it other than that I hadn't.

Progress?

SVreX wrote: Progress?

Just the floors I posted yesterday. Had to do a dog transport this morning then came home and started making and welding the tabs to mount the floors and trying to get the old bearings out of the torsion tube (still not out, pain of a job)

Here ya go Paul, I didn't want to disappoint. All the floor mount tabs cut and welded in. I also made and welded the seat belt mount tabs. I cant weld the inner ones in until I have the seats so I know where they go (a little elf tells me the wife has got them for me for christmas so I'll have them soon) I almost just welded them right in the center, then I realized there would be a bit of a spatial conflict with the shift rod if I did that....and when I say almost I mean mig torch in hand just ready to pull the trigger.

I also dropped the front trailing arms off at the shop to have the ball joints pressed out/in.

On the way home I passed a relatively new local business that does sandblasting and powder coating....hmmmm....

Today's progress:

My bastardization of a puller to remove the front axle bearings. The cheap slide hammer from the FLAPs was useless, the throw was to short. So I took the weight from it, got a longer rod out of the scrap bin, threaded one end for a nut and welded a stop on the other end. Put the weight from the cheap slide hammer on then my washers.

To pull the bearings you need a washer the same size as the ID of the tube. Cut to sides so it can slide past the bearing when horizontal, then stand it up vertical behind the bearing and wail away with the slide hammer.

Out with the old, in with the new, poly bushings for the front axle. These will get removed again as I still have welding to do on the front beam.

Drilled and mounted front floor

Then the back floor

My precision measuring device to make sure I hit the tabs in the center of the floor.

Decided I wanted the rear firewall to tuck under the floor for a cleaner look. Unfortunately I don't have a large sheet metal brake to make this kind of bend. Luckily I have a huge metal supplier and fab shop 10 minutes away they came to the rescue. Took my plate up there and they bent it nice and quick. I could spend all day there wandering around coming up with fabrication projects, they have everything. http://www.shopjfi.com/

Trimmed to fit. I need to weld upper mount tabs and tuck it under the rear floor. Should look nice.

This is looking really good!

Happy Christmas Eve, everyone. Small update 'cause, hey, I gotta spend time with the family. But the USPS elves brought some goodies for the project today so I thought I'd share.

Folks had asked about camber adjustment. The front upper balljoints pass through these camber eccentrics. As you can see the new, modified, versions have a bit more adjustment to them.

No, this isn't a Festivus pole, its the new front swaybar. It will replace the lower spring pack in the front beam.

Isn't that shiny metal floor going to bake you like a potato when you're out in the sun?

jimbob_racing wrote: Isn't that shiny metal floor going to bake you like a potato when you're out in the sun?

Probably :) But for autox its not like I'll be sitting in it for long periods and the diamond plate will dull over time (not like I intend to polish it) if it's really bad I'll paint it, it was just a good cheap, light flooring material.

It'll make underdash repair easier. No need to carry a flash light...

Dusterbd13 wrote: It'll make underdash repair easier. No need to carry a flash light...

Dash?

Umm.....

I stand corrected!

The more i think, the more bumfuzzled I get.

Where you gonna mount the gauges and switches?

Dusterbd13 wrote: The more i think, the more bumfuzzled I get. Where you gonna mount the gauges and switches?

Gauges? There will be a master on/off battery disconnect probably mounted to the upper cage and a push button start. If I get really fancy I'll put a switch on the fuel pump. The less I know the less I have to worry ;)

Seriously though, for an autocross only car I've never found gauges to be of any use. Aside from the switches mentioned above I'll probably mount a large idiot light hooked to the oil pressure sender but that's about it. There wont be a charging system, no coolant temp to monitor, I could do a tach but they are honestly just distracting, I can do that by ear. Speedometer? Why?

I can appreciate that philosophy. Ino llonger run anything but idiot lights.

You going to skip the charging system too? Simplify and add lightness you know. ..

Dusterbd13 wrote: I can appreciate that philosophy. Ino llonger run anything but idiot lights. You going to skip the charging system too? Simplify and add lightness you know. ..

Yep, no charging system, just parasitic drag on the motor and for 30-90 second runs it won't be needed. Every little bit helps.

never been a fan of solid floors on a sandrail but ive also never seen one built for anything but off road use. Project looks like it should be fun in the end

Regarding the Festivus pole, I could of sworn I remember reading that it was a pretty straightforward procedure to modify the beam to use the original spring pack as a swaybar?

dropstep wrote: never been a fan of solid floors on a sandrail but ive also never seen one built for anything but off road use.

True, if this were an offroad build it would be expanded metal all the way.

Kenny_McCormic wrote: Regarding the Festivus pole, I could of sworn I remember reading that it was a pretty straightforward procedure to modify the beam to use the original spring pack as a swaybar?

If you remove the center piece which holds the spring pack so it can rotate freely in the beam then it could theoretically act as a sway bar (not an easy thing to remove), but its not terribly effective which is why the vee racers stopped doing that and replaced the spring pack with a proper piece of spring steel that has better properties as a sway bar.

Merry Christmas everyone. Wife got me a set of poly seats for the project so that's one more thing off the list. Also scored a parts washer and vibratory tumbler to clean up some of the old bits.

So the Festivus Pole replaces the lower spring pack? Then no sway bar? Is that HD enough to run on a street car, Karmann Ghia?

VWguyBruce wrote: So the Festivus Pole replaces the lower spring pack? Then no sway bar? Is that HD enough to run on a street car, Karmann Ghia?

Should be heavy duty enough, they make them in different thicknesses for different weight cars, over a certain thickness you'd still need to remove the center section of the torsion tube but this one (5/8 if memory serves) it will pass through) You do loose a whole spring pack though so on a full weight car you'd probably need to compensate with coil overs.

You can put it in the upper or lower location, there seems to be some debate on which is better or if it makes a difference. I'm putting it in the lower simply because since my beam is welded to the frame it will be easier for me to cut the top tube for the adjuster for the spring pack.

In reply to VWguyBruce:

The Festivus pole is acting as the swaybar, it's only fixed to the trailing arms on either end. As JThw8 said, you'd probably need to run coilovers to compensate for literally halving the spring rate on anything with a body, a sandrail is usually only a few hundred pounds on the front tires. You can walk up to most unloaded ones and pick the front end off the ground without much trouble.

Sorry for the lack of updates folks. Been having enjoyable family time with the daughter home from college and all.

I did manage to move the seats from under the tree to mock up in the garage, I have to figure out mounts, I don't really feel bolting them to the floor will be best since the floor itself is only bolted down so I will make some mounts under the floor to which they can bolt. More fabrication work, hoping to get back on it soon. Started making a To Do and To Buy list and both are still too long :(

And right after I posted the last note the UPS guy showed up with more goodies.

I had to bolt them on the unfinished engine in mockup of course.