You seem to be the Father Flanagan of orphaned cars. May turn into a treasure trove. Good luck.
You seem to be the Father Flanagan of orphaned cars. May turn into a treasure trove. Good luck.
In reply to AAZCD-Jon (Forum Supporter) :
Between your extensive collection of Boxters & growing number of Fieros, I think you should attempt an unholy union of the two. You know, for science.
The engine is resting comfortably on the adjusted cradle now. The next big thing will probably be setting up the alternator. The stock position on the LX9 does not work. I like what EJS262 has done here:
In my case, there's no need for an AC compressor though, so I plan to put the alternator where the compressor sits basically like this:
The '85 Fiero came home with me yesterday evening. It's a complete car, 4 cyl w/automatic. I have no need for it at the moment, but it has what I need to make the Milburn Fiero street legal ...which could be pretty fun. I've been watching the used car market for a parts car for a while and at $500 and local, I am not going to do any better for a complete car.
I am going to draw that alternator mount up in CAD before too much longer, then I should be able to make them fairly easily, along with the tensioner mount. no AC wasn't an option for me, I want mine to still be comfortable on hot summer days eventually.
somewhere, there's instructions on how to use an AC compressor bracket off of another car for an alternator mount in that location, I'm not sure where though, if I find it I'll post it.
the later LX9 alternators use a PWM signal to control the alternator, if you elect to use it, it will output 13 and change volts with no signal, or you can get an earlier alternator, which can be connected to the factory charge light on the "L" terminal, the factory wire color for the light should be brown IIRC.
That 85 is very similar to how mine started out
I know nothing about tensioners specifically but I've only seen them in the middle of a run, bowstringing the belt. Maybe run cw from the crank to the tensioner to the idler pulley on top and then down to the big black one and down to the alternator.
In reply to jfryjfry :
Looking at the tensioner and how it was originally mounted, helps me understand why ejs262 mounted his by the AC compressor. It is originally mounted to part of the alternator bracket, high on the engine. In the Fiero, it comes too close to the right rear strut tower. The bracket that it mounts onto sets it about 2/3" off the face of the block. The timing cover is about 1" thick off the block. Mounting it to the timing cover puts it out of the plane of the belt. Mounting it low, by the AC compressor spaced a little bit off the face of the block is probably the only place it fits and functions without doing a lot more work.
The engine that came out of the Fiero did not use a tensioner. The alternator is set on a pivot bolt and tension is set with a slot to adjust how far it pivots. I may use the original Fiero alternator in a mount that allows it to pivot, or use the Buick alternator and adjust tension with an idler pulley mounted in a slot above the water pump.
I don't have any good pictures to post of the current status, but wanted to update that there is progress. I spent way too much time working on repositioning the alternator and routing the belt. 'Way too much' as-in three days of trying to fit my various existing pulleys and parts together including hours of trying to find just the right bolt. It's like I had a big box of random Lego blocks and always came out missing one special piece to make it all fit together. I have the stock Buick alternator mounted on the AC compressor bracket with some spacers that I made from extra parts that came with the car. I cut/ground/filed the lower mount of the alternator to fit against the block where it will be bolted with a small fabricated mount. At one point I almost had the tensioner in a good place, but adding another idler in and mounting it all well made it less practical.
I finally settled on a simple arm with a slot to adjust tension. The belt that I have in the picture (below) is one that I had laying around from long ago. It may have come from a Cayenne, but I'm not sure. It just happened to fit, so I may use it for my initial test runs. I do plan to measure and buy a new belt for the final install. May use the lower idler or not. The only advantage to it is that it adds some surface on the crank and alternator pulley and I don't think it will be needed.
With that done, I put the engine back into the car. It fit very well. The only part of the positioning that I am not satisfied with is the left axle. There is some play in the joint still, but the boot is stretched tighter than it should be. For now and possibly through the Challenge I'm going to leave it. I put the rear suspension back together, connected and flushed the rear brake calipers, and lowered the car back to the ground on it's wheels. It is nice to have it looking like a car and rolling again rather than a pile of parts on jack stands.
There's still a lot to do to get it running. The wiring harness is back on now and I have started sorting where it all goes and what should be de-loomed and cut out. I have barely looked at cooling, fuel, and exhaust. The cooling system should be generally in place and fairly easy to link together. Fuel could be a little bit of a challenge making the Buick ECU happy with the stock Fiero fuel system or adapting the Buick fuel system to the Fiero. I think for the initial test run, I'm going to use the gas tank from the Buick wired and connected, but not installed in the Fiero. There's no way the big tank will fit in the car, but it's a good first step to check function. The output of the exhaust manifold is behind the engine and placed nicely to bolt the original Buick pipe back onto. I should probably stick a muffler on there at some point, but that's low priority for now.
I'm working 12 hour day shifts Monday through Friday this week and plan to put some time in each night to progress towards starting the car. If all goes well, I will have it running by next weekend, then pull the engine back out to clean it up and make some adjustments to the plumbing and wiring for the 'final' install. ...'Final' just meaning good enough to drive the car not that the drivetrain swap will be completed.
New belt routing looks good, but that's a lot less wrap on the water pump than I'd expect. Is that close to the OE amount?
In reply to AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) :
With the OE set-up the belt has a little less contact with the water pump. I don't have a photo, but found this:
It will have less contact on the crank pulley, but it's not going to be driving PS or AC.
In reply to AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) :
it's about like factory.
This is still my favorite Project Car, but I had to get some other things done. We are still short handed at work and it's hard to find a lengthy block of time where I can focus on one car. It is not in a state where I can do 30 minutes of work, then walk away.
Meanwhile, I did find time to buy two salvage Hybrid cars; a Prius for my daughter's family and an opportune $800 buy on a Honda CR-Z. Both of those were easy to get back on the road, but now the garage is a mess again from rushing work on those without taking time to get all the clutter back where it should go. ...Oh and somewhere in there I pulled the 3800SC drivetrain from a 2001 Grand Prix GTP (back up plan if the LX9 doesn't work out), scrapped the car and sealed the engine up for storage. It will probably go into the '85 Fiero eventually ...eventually. Next on the agenda is picking up a Rallycross Boxster that was offered by a friend who needs it gone. That's going to happen on Friday. I don't plan to work on that car until the Fiero is running and ready to drive.
The plan:
I had scheduled myself for almost a whole week off later this month to do the 'Gambler 500 Mexico', but Mrs AAZCD has a minor health issue that canceled that plan. I still have the time off and should be able to make some significant progress. If all goes well, I plan to bring the Fiero to NTX Rallycross at the 'Big O Speedway' on June 12th for a test run and some fun.
Very glad this is still going strong! You've done some good stuff recently with the other cars and I can't wait to see this one get dusted off again.
I had a target of running it in a rallycross on July 2nd. For a while, that seemed plausible. The wiring harness is cut down quite a bit without causing any major problems (but is still a jumbled mess), the plumbing for the cooling system, looks good, the engine sits well on the cradle and I've worked out how to brace it against torque. The major hold-up at the moment is the fuel system. The LX9 uses a returnless fuel system and the Fiero has a supply and return. I still need to decide how to proceed with the fuel system and get parts.
I'm looking at August now for a Rallycross or Autocross to check it out.
I don't know much about the differences but can't you just run the supply line from the stock tank and pump to the engine and cap off the return bung on the tank?
maybe adapt the Buick fuel pump to the Fiero tank?
run an in-line fuel pump??
In reply to jfryjfry :
My understanding of fuel systems comes mostly from troubleshooting Porsche Boxsters and disassembling a couple dozen cars, so it's mostly guesswork.
The Fiero fuel system has a supply line that has constant pressure from the pump that exceeds the required pressure of the injectors. Varying RPM and demand at the throttle changes the volume of fuel passing through the injectors (there's got to be some basic formulas here that relate volume and pressure). Excess pressure is relived by a fuel pressure regulator on the fuel rail, then unused fuel is returned to the tank via the return line. Fuel constantly circulates from the tank through the injector rail back to the tank.
On Boxsters from 2002 and later (and I assume the Buick) the fuel pressure regulator is located in the fuel tank with the pump and there is only a supply line going to the injector rail. Fuel circulates within the sending unit to regulate the pressure. There is also a lot of tubing to capture vapors, a charcoal cannister, valves with electrical connections, and some vacuum hoses. Buick diagram:
Adapting the fuel system from the Buick would be complicated. The sending unit for the plastic tank of the Buick is nothing like the unit in the metal tank of the Fiero. At my skill it may be possible, but I expect it would be more of a fire hazard than a race car should risk.
Using the Fiero tank and sender with a regulator and return line added to the LX9 looks like the best way to proceed. It has been done before on other swaps using this engine and is much simpler.
My automotive focus for the rest of the week is, 'Am I going to the Rallycross on Saturday and which car am I bringing?' ...Then back to the Fiero next week.
In reply to AAZCD-Jon (Forum Supporter) :
So you either need to convert the tank to retrun-less or your engine to a return system? I think the latter you describe will work. If you use an adjustable regulator, you can set it to whatever the Buick fuel injectors want. I think it should be that simple.
In reply to maschinenbau :
Yes, looking at parts available online it looks like it will be pretty simple: No need to modify the fuel rail for the return. Just put the regulator at the input of the rail and connect the return right there at the regulator. Easier than I thought it would be and only around $50.
Here's the deal... I decided that this year is not going to work out for me to go to the Challenge regardless of the car. The travel and Challenge is a full week for me, not a weekend event. Around that time I am going to take a week to travel to visit my dad who is turning 88. Simply put; The Challenge will happen again next year. There are no guarantee of 89.
I made progress. The engine/cradle/transmission are fully mounted. I installed stainless braided fuel lines with AN fittings from the tank to the engine along with the regulator. The harness still has too much excess wiring and I need to wire in the Fiero fuel pump to the Buick harness. The Buick instrument cluster and modules are still on the harness and I need to decide where to place them - not sure if I want to keep the Fiero cluster or mount the Buick. Also I have gathered enough excess parts that I can put the car back to 'Milburn Stock' with a low mile Fiero V6 engine if I want to revert it. For the Challenge it should run the 3.5L though and maybe with the nitrous kit I had on the Boxster.
At the moment the car is covered and sealed while I get a car ready for Rallycross in a week. I had thought of this car for Rallycross, but it is not optimal for that. It should be a lot of fun at Autocross and I plan to get active at that with this car in the next season with the local SCCA.
I concur with your Dad's 88th being a priority. Enjoy the time with him.
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