The Posh Thread. 1991 Bentley Turbo R.

Toyman! said:

You don't understand just how much leather is in one of these cars until you have to treat all of it but I'm pretty sure it's a smallish herd of cows worth. Basically, everything that isn't floor or ceiling or wood is covered with leather.

I think it's just cheaper to do interior bits with fiberglass wrapped in leather than to pay for the molds necessary for quality plastic when you are in limited production.  I first noticed it on a Lotus S4s.  My 360 is the same.  The back side of everything is obviously done by hand and looks like crap.  The welds behind the interior parts on the Ferrari look like they were done after 3-grappa lunches too.  :)

In reply to tuna55 :

I only know (mostly from machining bushings) "brass" of a certain color, and soft enough to cut a sliver off with your pocket knife (destructive testing )

all of the medium hard alloys, (bit "lighter in color) that the knife won't cut a sliver (turns into NDT at that point  - but I wouldn't wanna bet $30 on it )

And then the "almost as hard as iron" beryllium bronze" the has a distinctive color in between, that I only know from non-sparking tools. (I've seen a fair bit of steel damaged 'cause someone that that yellow chisel was brass, and soft enough not to damage)

So for me , three catogories :

couple of different "brass",

bunch of alloys like bronze and copper-nickel (used a lot of nickel-copper, but that's another animal)

and beryllium bronze. 
 

small selection, from a non metallurgist  

now, back to actual Bentley stuff!!!

In reply to mfennell :

I'm sure you are correct. So far this vehicle is very well built. Even the fit and finish behind the panels is decent. 

WRT lug nuts, Porsches of many flavors have been using aluminum lug nuts for decades without a problem. An engineer-specified yellow metal of some sort wouldn't worry me.

03Panther said:

In reply to tuna55 :

I only know (mostly from machining bushings) "brass" of a certain color, and soft enough to cut a sliver off with your pocket knife (destructive testing )

all of the medium hard alloys, (bit "lighter in color) that the knife won't cut a sliver (turns into NDT at that point  - but I wouldn't wanna bet $30 on it )

And then the "almost as hard as iron" beryllium bronze" the has a distinctive color in between, that I only know from non-sparking tools. (I've seen a fair bit of steel damaged 'cause someone that that yellow chisel was brass, and soft enough not to damage)

So for me , three catogories :

couple of different "brass",

bunch of alloys like bronze and copper-nickel (used a lot of nickel-copper, but that's another animal)

and beryllium bronze. 
 

small selection, from a non metallurgist  

now, back to actual Bentley stuff!!!

To expand upon this, a density test followed by a hardness test would lock in the material pretty easily.

Density would be super easy with a graduated cylinder and any semi-accurate scale.

paddygarcia said:

WRT lug nuts, Porsches of many flavors have been using aluminum lug nuts for decades without a problem. An engineer-specified yellow metal of some sort wouldn't worry me.

Yep, and Alfas used brass lugnuts as well. If I am not mistaken they were side specific as well ... 

Usually its used to prevent corrosion. 

Buick 225 used left and right lug nuts , don't ask how I know  (head bang)

Toyman! said:

I spent a little time looking for steering wheels. OEM wheels are either what I have, what I have with a brown leather rim, or the below pictured wheel if it didn't come with an airbag.

What I would like is something like this, but at $1600 that won't happen. 

The steering wheel isn't high on the priority list so I'll play the waiting game and see what I come across. 

 

My grandfather had an XJS with an aftermarket wood wheel like that. It was jarring enough that I remember it 30 years later as sticking out. It doesn't work as well as you'd think. 

In reply to Keith Tanner :

What's the part that doesn't work? (Serious question; respect your opinion!)

Ive had a few, and liked 'em... granted none cost as much as the cars they were on, so at less than $1600 my expectations MAY have been a bit lower 

It just didn't look right in the car. Purely an aesthetic opinion. Nice enough wheel - momo, I think - but it looked out of place. And there was no shortage of real wood in that interior. 

That "K" spoked steering wheel just reminds me of the fake wood ones that you always see on cheesy mid-range power boats.

The horn button always says something super impressive like "Elite". 

The early 90's were really not a great time for steering wheel design in my opinion.  Some combination of parts bin engineering and the way plastic/rubber molding aesthetics were at the time...plus airbags and requirements being a new thing, made for a lot of wheels that didn't fit the car, across all price points.  Taurus wheel?  Looks funny.  Bently wheel?  Looks funny.  Porsche?  BMW?  Miata?  Yeah none of them were in a good place in 1991.

Friday, the Bentley received an oil change. The engine holds a little over 8 quarts of oil and surprisingly enough uses a Motorcraft oil filter. The drain plug is Allen-headed and brass. It's also close to an inch in diameter. It doesn't take long to drop 8 quarts of oil through a 1" hole. The oil filter is easily reached from under the car, unfortunately, it won't come out from the bottom because of the suspension and swap bars. You have to have someone up top to hand it to. Not a huge deal, just irritating. 

It was also still leaking fuel when the fuel pumps came up to pressure on a cold start. We tracked that down to a short piece of hose between the second fuel pump and the fuel accumulator. Once we changed that hose the leak was solved. I think these fuel pumps are staged. For general driving one pump runs. When you put your foot in it, the second pump kicks in to maintain pressure. I would bet this thing is thirsty when the turbocharger is spooled up and it's turning 4500 rpm. 

While we were looking at the fuel leak, I jacked up the driver-side rear of the car almost 2' into the air. This is by far the stiffest body-on-frame vehicle I have ever seen. Even with the chassis twisted that much, all the doors and hood closed normally. That's pretty impressive. It's no wonder the car rides so well. 

Not my car, but the chassis is pretty impressive. As is the length of the suspension arms on the front and the rear. 

I put about 100 miles on the Bentley this weekend. The only issue was a low idle at a couple of red lights. While it idles nicely at 530 rpm, it's not too happy at 400. I'll probably pull the IAC and clean it to see if that helps. 

The new tires ride much better than the old ones, but they are a little noisier on some types of pavement. 

The car drives very well. It's just as happy at 80 mph as it is at 35 mph and it absolutely eats miles with no issues beyond drinking the fuel. From what I'm reading, 12 mpg is common. 

It's really a phenomenal car. I'm looking forward to some longer road trips. 

Pulled the Bentley out of the shop. Warmed it up and took it for a spin. 

Pulled back into the driveway and when I got out I caught a whiff of coolant...

Yep, the top tank on the radiator is cracked where the top hose enters. 

Doing some reading, apparently the radiators were sourced from the same company that made the limited life span BMW radiators. Replacements are $990.

Good news, an all aluminum radiator is available. Bad news is, it's $1100. 

Or there is a place in China that will send me one for $420. Delivery some time in December. 

I'm going to have to do some more digging tomorrow. 

Can this not be repaired by say someone proficient with a metal melting glue stick thingy(TIG)??

I bet you would get it long before Dec, I have noticed the predicted receive date is several weeks farther out than the actual ship time.  A recent order said delivery approx Jan 3, it will actually be here in a few more days.

In reply to 759NRNG :

It's a plastic tank. I have never successfully repaired one. 

They are also known for cracking at 100k. I would hate to overheat it when the radiator cracks somewhere else. 

I'll get the radiator coming and replace all the hoses while I am at it. Don't ask how much they cost...($90 each)

In reply to Toyman! :

Can you get an aluminum radiator custom made? 

I have been very happy with the custom radiator I got from usradiator.com.  Old school all metal design. They had the specs for a 2.3 mustang II but they will also do full custom off supplied measurements.

Part of my digging today will be looking at custom options. 

The Chinese radiator is also all aluminum. Probably the same radiator sold in England for twice the money. 

I'm also going to dig through my hose catalog and see what fits. 

Digging is done. An all aluminum radiator was found in California for under 4 bills. It should be here by the 28th.

Since I'm planning some long road trips, I decided to spend the $$$ and fix it right. 

For the hoses, instead of paying $90 each, I'm going to dig through Gates PDF catalog and see if I can find a molded hose that will fit. 

If you ever need custom hoses this is the place to find them. It lists every molded hose Gates makes by size and with a picture so you can see the shape of the bends.  

GATES HOSE IDENTIFICATION GUIDE 

Toyman! said:

...For the hoses, instead of paying $90 each, I'm going to dig through Gates PDF catalog and see if I can find a molded hose that will fit. 

If you ever need custom hoses this is the place to find them. It lists every molded hose Gates makes by size and with a picture so you can see the shape of the bends.  

GATES HOSE IDENTIFICATION GUIDE 

Excellent suggestion! Our catalog is a really great tool in that aspect. Same for belts, and hydraulics as well; you can learn SO much just from reading the catalog.

In reply to Toyman! :

Geeze no wonder these ride so well, those suspension arms look like a trophy truck!

Did you figure out the seat motor controllers?

And did you figure out how to fix the rust spot ?