ISO: UTCC 2023 build chassis - mid engine host

So, after thinking a bit harder about this. I could save myself considerable time if I where able find a project car that is complete(ish) minus drivetrain/or less than desirable drivetrain to place my mid engine drivetrain into. The goal would be to have a bit of fun at the UTCC 2023/24 event at VIR.

About the drivetrain:

• 987s trans axles
• 996 rear subframe
• kennedy adaptor to LS
• LY6 6.0 liter engine

glued together as a "package" ready for insertion.

I'll need about 34 inches between the centerline of the rear wheels to the back of the driver seat. Please keep that in mind.

Anyone have anything they think would be different, interesting and still decently quick when mated to a 400whp+ motor mid engine combo?

FYI: 996 with blown motor - easy button and would highly consider.

thanks, Paul

914 or Boxster?

widebody notchback vintage VW

In reply to lotusseven7 (Forum Supporter) :

Certainly the easy button and very fast. A cheap 986 is mid pack option for me, however kinda predicable I feel. Thanks for the input!

In reply to demnted :

Would be awesome and continue the theme of putting better than VAG engines into VAG cars. (k20 gti).

There's not a lot of longitudinal mid-engine chassis out there outside of exotic Ferrari/Lamborghini/McLaren/Ford GT stuff. In the last 30 years there's... 986 Boxster, 987 Boxster/Cayman, and... ? Audi R8? 

Abandoned Factory Five GTM build maybe? One of the flood/tornado C8's?

How much building are you wanting to do?  I'm not super familiar with the parts does a 996 subframe include the rear uprights/brakes/arms?  I thought 996 (assuming 911 parts) where rear engined or does the "subframe" turn around for Mid engined.  

Whats the budget?  Production car chassis options have all been covered pretty well.  I'd recommend a Europa as a crazy out there option but it's likely to require as much fab as a full custom build to really do the job.  

Mid engine conversion on any random car is always an option.  Buy something with good front suspension geometry and you probably could wind up with a decent performing machine with 996 rear suspension shoved under it.  But that's pretty heavy Fab work.  

Also could do a Mid engined Truck conversion.  Using something like a Chevy LUV could result in a <3k lb build that would stand out a bit.  

In reply to nocones :

I would absolutely think truck would be an "easy button" for building from. Depending on weight goals, a "king cab" or something similar could donate some rear firewall to tuck the engine further forward. Absolutely free reign on design, and any/all of those older, small trucks are full frame.

Cool, center-seat 6.0 Powered Mini-truck

In reply to classicJackets (FS) :

Also Circle Track Front suspension parts should be easy to adapt and relatively cost effective.   Something like a RX-8 front subframe woudl be pretty simple to adapt also.   Or Pro-touring setups for cars with frame rails would work well.  Tie a Cage into the chassis rails and you can have a pretty stiff overall chassis.    Truck bedsides are pretty easy to move the wheels backward if needed to make the distance from the wheeels centerline to the cab rear wall whatever you need.  Though a longbed single cab truck with the bed shortened behind the wheels would be the easy button.  

A 90's ford ranger is a decent option as there are many "prerunner" fiberglass widebodies available that would be pretty cool for the easy button body modifications.    You could also grow the build as you develop the engine/suspension package and eventually do a Tube frame conversion like the Engineered to Slide Hilux.  

Wait.. This sounds so easy why am I building things the hard way?

That Rodeo is AMAZING.  

catapultkid said:

FYI: 996 with blown motor - easy button and would highly consider.

I'm a little confused because this would spin the wheels the wrong direction with the trans you have. I'm also not sure I see how a 996 subframe is terribly useful, unless you meant 986 for both of the times you wrote 996.

In any case, short of major chassis modification or a silhouette body on a tube frame, your only real option is going to be something from the porsche family, most realistically the most modern cayman you can stomach paying for. 987.1s like to destroy various parts of their drivetrains regularly, usually there's at least one or two rollers around for sale for only slightly more money than they should cost. Newer than that would be better for overall performance but are harder to come by as rollers. A 986 boxster would work and be a lot cheaper to start, but will need more work to be a good track car with that much power. Plus the structural and safety issues of not having a roof.

Thank you all for the input: 

Couple of clarification points. I'm willing to invest 20k+ for the right vehicle all in.

The 996 subframe will work with the 987S transaxle (with custom mounts) but factory axle lengths. The 996 subframe has the uprights, control arms and shock mounts all integrated. It is literally 6 bolts plus top of shocks to mount into anything. Nice package unit honestly with proper suspension.

The 996 comment would need to include the transmission and blown motor, my adaptor would bolt right too it OE trans after I remove the motor. I don't want to deal with flipping the 987S trans I have (I'd sell that off).

Nascar truck is a option, super light and bed space for activities. Already comes with proper brakes, seating, steering, etc. Honestly one of the best ideas. 

Fabrication doesn't scare me, my original plan was to go with 100% custom chassis inside a mk2 golf shell, but I started to think and ask. There are faster ways if all I need to do is fab in the motor cradle with subframe. I actually believe I will build out the drivetrain completely (including headers, intake, etc.) seperately and wait for the right donor.

I have nothing useful to contribute, but I will say the idea of a Nascar truck converted to mid-engine with a Porsche drivetrain would be delightful in it's ability confuse and bewilder those without imagination. 

For the UTCC it doesn't need to be production-based, does it? I'm not sure what sort of engineless cheap used sports racers there are out there, (and many of them are probably sized for bike or four-cylinder powerplants, but figured I would add the suggestion.

There was a time when you could pick these up pretty cheap, who wanted an orphaned Lincoln with a 70s interior? Not so much today. 

How about an Radical Pro 6 chassis? I have one that I was going to convert to electric powered, but I'll probably never get to it. It has the left front ripped off, but suspension and front bumper damage only, the rest of the chassis is untouched. The link is not my car, just showing you what a PRO6 is, in case you are not familiar. 

https://racecarsdirect.com/Advert/Details/125346/radical-pr6

There are some heavy hitters in UTCC, and the only way to be competitive with your powertrain choice would be shooting for sub 1700lbs with full downforce (1000lbs+ @ 120mph), which this could get to. Normal PRO6 wet weights are around 1,050lbs. Why invest all that effort and money to be mid-pack? I'm looking for $5K for a GRMer. I'm in the Detroit area. Let me know. 

In reply to carpeforza :

This option is pretty solid.  And there are 400hp radicals out there to help you know the weak spots. 

yes! lets talk

Also, I don't intend to be super competitive but love having something that is a little different and outside of the box.

My goal for the next UTCC (played along in 2021) is sub 2:02 which seemed to be the average. 

Paul

Right now, the car is complete, and was a semi-competitive SCCA P1 race car, right up to the scene of the accident. There is crash damage: 

• front left suspension arms
• front left wheel
• front FIA crash box 
• front body clip (thrown out)
• Dual Plane Rear wing bent (repairable?)

With a replacement of the suspension and wheel, you could run laps as it sits. I'm taking the current powertrain out for a backup of my SR3. Everything else could go with it, if you wanted. If you're handy with fiberglass, I could throw in an old Radical SR3 front clip that could be made to fit the PRO6. 

In reply to carpeforza :

Thanks, let me do a bit of research on what these parts cost to replace. Curious on photos if possible (no rush).

Thanks,

I found some on my phone, when I picked it up. If you are not running in a Radical Cup Series, or care about originality, you can pretty easily fabricate replacement parts yourself (that was my plan). Everything is made from steel tube. I was planning on altering the wheelbase by lengthening the 6 tubes of the space frame behind the driver's roll hoop (to fit a bigger battery). 

Could have also been a good candidate for the Challenge, to plop a production car body on, if I could figure out some creative accounting for the chassis cost, but that's another topic. 

Let me know if you have any question. 

Man, looking at that thing. I'd just wanna fix it and drive it, looks like a blast.

Do you know if anyone has done dimensioning of the frame anywhere? It looks like the transaxle will fit between the rear frame and custom axles could be procured. 

The v8 would definitely require a extension of the frame, but that's ok.

carpeforza: What is the best way to get in touch with you? I tried the messaging tool on the forums but no idea if that works...

In reply to catapultkid :

I just tried the "Contact" button, for the first time, to send you a message. See if you got something in your email account. Talk to you soon.