"Needs work" seems redundant
Do you always carry the logs around with you?
Definitely needs more work than meets the eye. I'd bet you could put 20k in it to get it back on the road. Awesome cars but.....
In reply to 914Driver :
if you're talking about the 4x4 wood under the front tires, yes, if there's a chance you'll be towing a Citroenwithout power, you carry those with you. At full suspension droop, you can't even get a tow/winch cable hooked on the car without damaging the front bumper and airdam unless you can lift it up. Perfect world you run it up on some wood as in these pictures and then also have another piece of wood of similar thickness between the front of the subframe and the winch cable. You always flatbed these cars as well, no matter what sort of truck the tow company sends out first...
The later CX's still need this protection as well.
"Can't find anyone to work on it" is the most common lament of anyone who owns a classic car anymore, let alone anyone competent to work on something as complex as a Citroen SM with a Maserati engine. That and the 8 months to a year wait for them to start on it. If I weren't so old and tired I would still be building Mini engines and gearboxes - at any time I had more work than I could get done......I finally just had to stop too.....
Had one as a Lemons car. It was a blast!! The back end squatting when you hit the brakes feels really weird
That $9,999 price feels like one of those $1,234 prices. Is that really a $9,999 car?
AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) said:"Needs work" seems redundant
Common joke in the UK about these used to be that they really should've been called the "Citroen S&M".
MiniDave said:"Can't find anyone to work on it" is the most common lament of anyone who owns a classic car anymore, let alone anyone competent to work on something as complex as a Citroen SM with a Maserati engine. That and the 8 months to a year wait for them to start on it. If I weren't so old and tired I would still be building Mini engines and gearboxes - at any time I had more work than I could get done......I finally just had to stop too.....
The Car Wizard (Hoovie's mechanic on the Tubes of You) had an interesting video recently as to why he doesn't work on older and classic cars anymore, with the exception of a handful of cars owned by long-term, loyal customers. The gist of it was basically that parts availability and most importantly, timelines to get said parts and they often being a gamble doesn't make sense as an economic proposition unless you're really running a restoration job and can properly charge the customers for parts hunting time and essentially work on all projects as long term projects.
I suspect that outside relatively few popular models, we'll see a shift to most older and classic cars being maintained and restored by their owners for this exact reason and as a result, probably a smaller car scene because it has a big impact on who ends up owning a classic car.
I've talked to guys who used to repair series rovers and quit because of the lack of reliability of brake parts, eg slave cylinders were a 1 in 3 of working properly past a few weeks. I think it becomes a point of understanding between shop and owner. If the car owner understands the potential issues, it can be resolved
In reply to Docwemple :
I agree it can be resolved, but I also think from a business perspective, you'd have to set up your shop to be able to make things work financially when you're waiting for parts for so many customer vehicles that you don't have any more space and no work because you're waiting for the third replacement set for those slave cylinders.
So one might end up having a lot of projects going at the same time, but more slowly than people are used to.
In reply to BoxheadTim :
I agree.
Back to the SM or S and M (love that), the crazy side of me loves those and wants that
Scott at Cold War Motors has a veritable fleet of these (which seems something of a necessity if you hope to get one running). Fascinating cars, but not for the faint of heart.
In reply to BoxheadTim :
I own a vintage sports car shop and yes getting certain parts and quality parts has become more challenging but we find that customers understand. The upside is its boom times with work. We have a waiting list of customers and stay very busy for a number of reasons.
If you run a shop , how do you charge for the daily parking spot these dead cars waiting for parts take ?
it really is not the shop owners responsibility that parts are not available, but how do you relay that to the customer?
In reply to californiamilleghia :
Waiting on parts for downed cars is nothing new and unfortunately I can't charge for that. The simple answer is communication with the customer and staying organized with workflow from sourcing/ordering parts to working it into the work schedule. I've been in hunderds of shops around the country and most of there problems are from not running it like a business and getting disorganized.
Yeah that will take some work to get restored. I have one, paid similar money for it, but mine is in much better condition. I just picked up a 20 ft container of SM parts (engines, transmissions, suspension, electrical, interior, 9 front fenders, hatches, hoods, and tons of small pieces). Enough to save several cars. I ended up getting two sets of seats that are in good condition and am reconditioning them, one set for my car and one to sell. A full set of leather upholstery and seat foam is around 5K, so the trip up to Lancaster has already paid for itself many times over.
These cars are complicated and very interesting but really unique and that is part of the "fun" as they are so different from regular cars. Even the engines are not as bad as people think, but you have to fix the known weaknesses (timing chains, tensioners, water pump seals are known issues).
Running but rough cars are around 20K, twice that for nice examples and top cars are 60K or more. Prices have come down a bit in the past year but last two cars on BAT have sold in the 45K range. I figure I'll be in the 25K range when done with new paint, tires, the refurbished interior and a rebuilt engine and new clutch. I have a solid engine that will just need to be checked out by my machine shop and heads done with new stainless valves, new rings and bearings and some of the trick parts such as the John Titus water pump seal and distributor upgrade.
Fun fact, we could not get the car out of the garage when it was sitting down on bump stops as you don't have steering or brakes without the engine running. But spin the pump with an electric drill for a minute and the car rises off the ground and you now have steering and brakes to move the car.
If you ever come across a project, let me know
@Docwemple will do, they are out there. This one is pretty similar to the one on this thread that just sold for $2,700 https://www.hemmings.com/auction/1973-citroen-sm-244571/sold I am selling him one of the extra interiors I have so at least the interior will be much easier for him to handle. The bigger issue for this car will be the engine as it likely dropped a valve and damaged the engine. First thing you do on these cars is make sure the sodium exhaust valves are replaced, as they can break and drop even if the car is just sitting and damage the engine. I'll let you know if I see any good projects.
Guy's asking 9k obo. Says he has all the parts for it.
In reply to dherr (Forum Supporter) :
2700 seems more like it. These are cool cars but can be a massive headache. Is it true that the entire wiring harness is the same color?
In reply to Docwemple :
I have 2 CXs, not an SM, but I can vouch for the fact that on those, the wires are all the same color after the battery slides over and shorts out the entire harness back to the ignition switch. All a similar bubbly black color.
In reply to travellering :
Lol.
In reply to travellering :
In the top gear review they made that comment, that's why I asked.
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