240z pricing help, please

The partial PPI I had done on an early 240z recently came back pretty reasonable so barring a quick AutoCheck/CarFax it looks like it's negotiating time. Trouble is that I still haven't gotten used to US used and classic car prices (I tend to guess/assume rather low prices) so I could do with some help.

This is the car: http://sacramento.craigslist.org/cto/2363246593.html

It's had a decent respray, has a little rust (one wheelarch wants replacing, plus there are a couple of small areas where new metal wants to be put in, but it seems to be rather solid for a 1971). The door seals need replacing and the seats need to be redone, the oil pressure sensor and the air ducts need replacing, it needs a tune up badly (plus it''l most likely want a new airbox cover as someone's drilled additional breathing holes into the one on the car) and I'd need to find another choke lever. Oh, and my favourite bug bear - someone's been at the electrics ).

On the positive side, it's a really early model (still has the speedo that starts at 20mph and the 140psi oil pressure gauge), it appears to be mostly complete and it even has a (non-functioning atm) period Frigidaire a/c system installed. The age also makes it CA emissions exempt, but IIRC that goes for all 240Zs.

The seller appears to be willing to negotiate within reason, but I'd need some idea of what a fair price would be...

I love the "everything works as you can see in the pictures" line... That is certainly "all the money" for that car IMHO. $4,500 seems more reasonable. 240Z prices are all over the place lately. There's a guy in my area with a thrashed '72 for sale, destroyed interior, plexiglass sunroof, horrible respray, etc. and he wants $2,200 for it... Meanwhile, my straight and solid '73 with a ton of spares is getting no action at all at $1500. Good luck with your search, Tim... Cheers, Scott

Yeah, I think that's a bit steep too given that it still needs rust repair and paint. The motor is the cheap part, the body is another matter.

Keep in mind the "tune up" could include things like a bad distributor or a fuel delivery issue. Mine had a fuel problem when I got it where the line was getting air at the separator inside the right rear quarter of the interior. It's a plastic bottle that's hard to replace, so I had to fab up another one using a steel version off a '70 model. It would run for a while and fuel starve, or run very rough.

Also, the carbs will likely be worn at this point too, requiring more than just a kit to put right. Budget for that, which could run about $600 or so for a properly remanufactured set. I've got two sets of carbs, both of which have been "rebuilt", and both of which will probably have to be sent off and "totally" rebuilt to run correctly. They simply wear out.

I guess I'm saying a "tune up" could be a lot more than just plugs and wires. Be prepared. And a Pertronix is worth everything you pay for it.

With all that said, I think $3,500 would be about max for what I'd pay for that one, but then the market here may be different. If I knew for a fact that the carbs were excellent and that it needed no fuel work, no major rust repair anywhere, and that it's brakes and suspension were all recently updated, I would go up to his asking price. But for that, there better be reciepts to back it up.

There are plenty of cars that look worse that still need the same things for less money, and really, really good cars that need nothing for just a bit more. That one is in a gray area in my opinion, but then I haven't seen it in person so who knows.

OK, I missed where it had a crack free dash. That changes things a bit. They are very, very rare and will produce a price bump. If you had to go out and find a crack free dash, I've seen them sell for as little as $500, and as much as $1,500.

I'm in agreement with Scott ... prices are all over the map - and depend alot on locale.

Being for sale in CA means we Easterns are also looking (rust and Z are synonymous here). As shown in the ad, the car is NOT rust-free... best to check the frame rails, floors, and underside of rockers for softness....it's the hidden rust that hurts.

That said, I also agree that $4500 is a more than reasonable offer -

Good luck

GWG

ggarrard wrote: I'm in agreement with Scott ... prices are all over the map - and depend alot on locale. Being for sale in CA means we Easterns are also looking (rust and Z are synonymous here). As shown in the ad, the car is NOT rust-free... best to check the frame rails, floors, and underside of rockers for softness....it's the hidden rust that hurts.

I thought I had mentioned that, but obviously that was only over in the GRM post...

I've had a very good look around for rust; the wheelarch is the worst part (partially because someone took a wirebrush to it), there is a little bubbling in one of the rockers (about the size of a bank note folded in half) but couldn't find any trace of filler, some bubbling in one of the front fenders (again the bottom, this might hide something). I also noticed that whatever undercoat had been on the car is falling off, but there only appears to be a little surface rust underneath there. I groped pretty much the whole panel between the rocker and floor and couldn't find any trace of crunchy stuff.The driver's side wheelarch has been replaced in the past, presumably before the paint.

I've had a local mechanic check over the engine (healthy) and the underbody for rust. Report suggests that there is no rust in the frame rails, but apparently there is some bubbling around one of the rear lights that I missed, otherwise it appears that all he found is the rust I've also found already.

In general it appears that cars are more expensive in NorCal and Nevada than on the Eastern side of the country (even in the Southeast).

There is obviously the slim chance that the whole body is sculpted out of filler but that would mean that it's completely out of whack with the underside of the car.

The comment re the tune up comes more from me poking around the engine - the carbs haven't got much oil in the dampers and it's the wrong oil IIRC (ATF) and there's a little 'stutter' when you initially open the throttle (presumably because the pistons in the carbs open too quickly, had that before with SUs) but it's pulling pretty nicely otherwise. It's just that the components in the engine bay look like they wanted some attention a few years ago...

racerdave600 wrote: There are plenty of cars that look worse that still need the same things for less money, and really, really good cars that need nothing for just a bit more. That one is in a gray area in my opinion, but then I haven't seen it in person so who knows.

The main problem seems to be that the 1500-2000 Zs are utter sheds out here, then there isn't much in the middle and suddenly you're looking at a 10k car. In fact, most vehicles below $5k seem to make pretty good organ donors (which makes it harder for me to find a cheap-ish sports car that will see the occasional track outing), but not necessarily drivable vehicles.

Tim - given that you've very obviously done your homework on this one, I'd say its' your call, and only you know best. Offer the seller what you think is a fair price, and drive it home...

If that fails, I know of a 76 sitting in a garage with some "minor" (Ontario version) rust repair needed...

GWG

I assume the deal is long done or not, but here is my take on this situation; applies to any classic purchase.

Proper body rehab is going to cost you $10,000 no matter what you hear.

Say you paid $3000 for the car

Your list of things to do is around $1000

Your time to pull htis together is going tobe hundreds of hours over some serious long period of time.

I woould go looking to see what kind of a Zd car I can find for $15,000 or so and save the agravation.

Of course, if what you WANT is a project, then ignore the above.