Cars from the eighties and nineties

We are seeing a fundamental shift in auction and Bring A Trailer sales. More and more cars from the eighties and nineties are selling.

Should we write more about collector quality versions of these cars in Classic Motorsports, or leave the newer stuff in Grassroots Motorsports?

In reply to Tim Suddard:

GRM please!

I'd say it's probably car dependent, but I'd be ok certainly with '80's cars in Classic.

I'll be the compromise. 80's in Classic and 90's in GRM.
Do agree w/racerdave though. Probably car dependent.

80s definitely in Classic Motorsports: common cars like Corolla GTS, 1st gen CRX and MR2 are now 30 years old, so even those rate.

We discuss (okay sometimes argue) about this often here. We have kind of drawn the line with modified vs. origina, as the deciding factor. A nice original or restored MR2 is a classic, a lowered, modified, competition MR2 is GRM.

Anther factor is where it was in the market place originally. A nineties Aston Martin is probably Classic, while an E36 M3 from the same decade is probably GRM.

In reply to Tim Suddard:

I agree with both of those statements Tim.

I agree too Tim. Along those lines, an E30 M3 to me would be classic, for instance.

I believe what is classic will evolve with the times. But once classic then always classic. But to me cars that are within the 20 year mark and generally regarded for their ability on the track belong in GRM.

OK, good. So far it seems we are all in agreement. Anyone else want to chime in before I take this to our staff meeting?

Yes, I really to count on you folks to help me run the asylum.

You might want to look at cars up to 1985 as one group and then 1985 and newer.

The German and Japanese cars really made performance and design leaps in those years.

Think of: Audi 100cs to 4000cs Quattro, BMW E21 to E30, Honda CRX to Civic Si....

I am not sure you can pin it down to one year, and that year would keep moving, but I am pretty comfortable with 1985 as a cutoff point.

You used the word "probably" several times, and I think that is a very good word to keep in mind. There will be cases where two very similar age and style cars will naturally fit into different editorial categories.

I presume you've been in the business long enough to know you are going to get whined at no matter what choice you make..."

I also think at least the 80's are game, (car dependent as previously said). After all a Maserati Biturbo is an 80's car, now before everyone goes nuts, the '87 FI ones were actually pretty good. Also cars such as the Dodge Omni GLH, Starion, etc. Renault Feugo, etc. were from those times. 90's can stay with Grassroots, IMHO

Not sure we will ever see Fox chassis Mustangs and Camaros from the same age in Classic Motorsports, but you never know.

I would say yes on a case by case basis.  I don't ever see a K car being a classic nore a celebrity.  I think novilty better describes these cars that have survived.  

Tim I think you have to step back and define "classic" and start there.  I can see things from the 90s and even the 2000's being classic.  When ever I use the word classic in describing a car I think of it as a vehical that embodies something specific to what you are describing.   Look at camaro. The 60s are classic mucle cars. The 70s are classic mullet cars (yes I had both 70s camaro and the mullet). 

So I think "classic" can be used in a much broader sense I think a classic is the best of something and not necessarily something defined by a time period but instead a classic can actually define a time period.  

I also think classic should should not be confused with antique or vintage. These are not the same.  

Hard to set a hard cut off on years.  Fieros came out in 1984 but only the 1988 model is worth doing much with.

Tim Suddard said:

Anther factor is where it was in the market place originally. A nineties Aston Martin is probably Classic, while an E36 M3 from the same decade is probably GRM.

This sums it up.  E36's are still DD's and cheap beaters for many.  A DB7 is certainly a collector car.  I'd go further, there are some cars from the early 00's that are more likely to appeal to the classic crowd.  X100 XK8's are either weekend toys or beaters at this moment and the beaters aren't long for this world.  That's another type of car destined for the pages of CM.  Also early AMG's from the 90's. Most 90's Benz's are down to beater status for people who really can't afford the upkeep on a car like that, but good AMG's are under the radar classics for enthusiasts.  I'd tip those towards CM as well.  I'd say 986 and 996 Porsche's are GRM fodder though.

From a purely personal point of view I'd like to see these cars migrate to CM, as I get older GRM has less and less of interest to me.  Sorry, but I don't think I've even opened the last 2 or 3 issues of GRM, but I do still read CM.

Tim Suddard said:

I am not sure you can pin it down to one year, and that year would keep moving, but I am pretty comfortable with 1985 as a cutoff point.

Something that is interesting to consider...  

Putting classic cars from 1985 and older means that the brand new cars that you featured in Auto-X were one year old.  Realistically, I'm pretty sure that every car that you featured for a few years are now very much classics.

You've been doing this for quite a while, now, Tim.  Nicely done.

(as a comparison, we bought our classic '73 GTV in 1995, and now have owned it for just over half of it's life now.  Pretty amazing.  And in 2021, my Miata will be as classic as the GTV was back then.  And I bought it new in 1999)

Time flies.

For the marque that my name is after, the GTV6 of the 80's is very well loved.  And the very interesting player is the Milano, which I still can't fathom is a great Lemons car.  One of the best.  Of course, the Spiders are very comfortable in CM.  

I would go by rarity. Cars that are rare do not get modified into something a GRMer would do, but something common like an E36m3 would.

In reply to Tim Suddard :the part of me that is stuck back in the 50's wants to say no,no, no

but out in the driveway is A really nice  rust free 1984 Jaguar XJS V12 

I'm trying to decide if I want to polish it up and keep it as a cruiser, gut it and turn it into a race car  or upgrade it with newer Jag stuff and just keep the vintage body.  

The more things change the more they stay the same.  Back in the early 1970s I had a Jag XK 150s with the same delemia.  ( it became a race car) 

the XJS is right on the cusp About to become valuable. Heck in England some of the more desirable ones are selling for as much as £30,000 (about$45,000)  while here the cream is barely worth $20,000

So go ahead include some newer stuff, but be a bit selective.  We don't need to save every economy sedan and minivan.  

We have quite a lot of good XJS here for under $10K Can. Just haven't started to rise yet.  And the rusty ones probably never will as they aren't worth saving.  Quite a few low mileage second cars around here though. 

It's an interesting idea, but one that will be a challenge to determine what's a "classic" in the modern sense.  Cars of the '70's and earlier were more robust than cars of the '80's and beyond.  The '80's began a time of more disposable cars and you see that in the availability of more pedestrian cars from that era v. the earlier times.  For example, you could find a multitude of cars from the 1960's on any Craigslist, from sports cars to boring 4-door sedans (Novas, Impalas, Falcons, etc), but less for the equivalent cars of the 1980's (Civics, K Cars, etc).  Now, that may be because cars of the 1960's are being actively sought out as classics whereas cars of later times have not reached that status so people aren't actively finding them.  But I don't think that's always the case.

I agree with the above that some cars from '80's would be consider more classic (CRX's, Miata, Omni GLH) but most of them (K-cars, minivans, Eldorado's, etc) would not.  And that comes back to time.  20 years ago, you couldn't give away 1966 Impala 4 door or a 4 door 1957 Chevy, but as the more "desirable" models increased in value, those models came up.  In theory, things like first gen Minivan's might be valuable. However, the car culture seemed to be more active with the generation where those cars were valued than now.  For example, there's probably more interest in an original Atari 2600 than a 1977 Mustang.  The generation that would begin to covet cars of the 80's aren't as car-centric as the generation prior.

Summary, I absolutely think CM should include those cars.  It'll be a work in progress.  You'll get pushback and complaints, but you'll also get people behind it and supporting it.  Pretty much with anything in media.

-Rob

In reply to wspohn :the XJS is a bit of a problem. First manufactured in 1975 it clearly falls in the classic catagory with the glorious V12 

But each upgrade made the car better unlike so many cars that begin to lose their identity as they age. The last ones in 1996 are clearly the best.