Fiat vs. Alfa Spiders

Ok, I know very little about either of these, actually my extensive knowledge comes from the two wikipedia articles I read before this post... I'm looking for info on these and for which one is better. Let's say late 70's early 80's of each.

-How do they compare?
-Is one hands down the must have over the other? -Maintenance issues?
-Rust issues?
-Is the exhaust note on one to die for over the other?
-In the timeframe I am looking at it looks like the Alfa changed from SPICA?? fuel injection to Bosch, which is better? Are carbs the way to go on the Alfas?
-It looks like the Fiat used carbs until 80ish and then switched to Bosch, again which is better?
-And it looks like the Fiat has a "backseat" while I assume that is only for small children, does it have seatbelts?

Of a related note, I see a lot of Fiats for sale local to me, but I have seen very few Alfas. The Alfas I have seen are usually about evenly priced with the Fiats and in some cases a little higher is there a reason for this?

Neither of them having issues with rusting, in fact both of them do it rather well. Definitely necessary to have a very good look with a magnet for both of them.

Re the fuel injection, IIRC the Spica on the Alfas has a reputation of potential problems. A lot of it comes down to having someone work on them who knows the system as they're supposedly easy to mess up. Alfa used carbs on the European models much longer than in the US and those seem to work better over time once they're set up right. If you want to stay FI, I'd look at the later ones with teh Bosch system, from what I know that's the better system.

A certain mag did a comparison of a few popular roadsters

http://classicmotorsports.net/articles/drop-top-60s-roadsters/

The 124 comes out on top.

Ditchdigger thanks for the article but it was looking at ones from 1968. Do things change between 1968 and 1978? 78+ is more of the time frame I am looking at.

We fix Alfas and Fiats regularly at Eclectic Motorworks and they're both good cars. I personally own two Alfa Spiders (1978 SPICA car and 1988 Bosch car), so I'm a bit biased toward the Alfas. However, I think either would be a great choice. BoxheadTim is right, they rust like crazy, maybe more than British cars, so that's your #1 concern.

To figure out which one you want, it's going to come down to your personal assessment. Take your time in the search and drive as many of each as you can to decide.

Up here in Michigan, the easiest bet is an 80's era car as many of those have been stored winters and don't have rust. The earlier cars just don't exist--they rusted away fast and got junked. The late cars are nice because they're modern, probably safer, and the FI is nice. The downside to the late cars is they're modern (heavier, more plastic, big bumpers, etc).

With Alfas, SPICA gets a worse reputation than it deserves. Tim is right again--if set up properly and maintained, it works just fine. However, the Bosch systems on the later cars are really nice if you don't mind the plastic interiors that come with them.

These cars are undervalued right now. You can get a really nice car for $6-10K. I think you're right that the Alfas go for a bit more, probably because Fiat's reputation for reliability and part support has been so bad for so long. I don't recommend getting a project since the nice cars are so cheap. The nice cars usually have some deferred maintenance needed, so plan on $1-3K to replace bushings, tires (old tires with good tread are very common), maybe do a valve job, etc..

I keep thinking sooner or later prices will shoot up, but so far they haven't. So it's a buyer's market right now. Of course, they have shot up for the earlier cars, again more on the Alfa side than the Fiats, so maybe the newer cars will catch up sometime. In the mean time, get one and enjoy it.

--Carl

In reply to Carl Heideman:

There's always the 'best of both worlds' year of 82- that's the last year of the older body style (with the big rubber bumpers- sure- but that can be changed) and the first year of the Bosch injection. That is, if one has to have the electronic version.

I'm more a SPICA guy, but that's because I've had the gold car you see in my avatar for close to 20 years, and it's SPICA. With a rebuild in 1998 or so, it had the injection serviced by Ingram Enterprises, and then tuned by a really good mechanic (Dean Russell of Trail Auto)- it's ran great ever since. I never mess with it, and as long as I have a good battery, it starts right up. Having gone though that, I had a plan on taking a '74 GTV and vintage racing it with a well worked over SPICA pump- alas, desire has kept it on my hoist for 2 years since the only time I drove it....

The SPICA years that are more questioned are the 79-81 years that had EGR- but my mechanic seems to really like that era, too- he says that they are super easy to set up, and can make a lot of power.

This is not to take away anything from the Fiat- they are great cars, too. I think knowing the driving position of the cars, the most important thing is to drive them- and make sure you fit. I'm lucky that I do, pretty easily. But I, too, had to modify the gas pedal on my car to help.

To second Carl's excellent advice- figure out what you want, take your time to find the right version of that, drive as many as you can. One thing I will add- if you find the car you like, get it. Don't hesitate. While the cars are not all that uncommon, finding the one you really like is rare. Once you get it, enjoy it, and move on.

Good luck on the search. I'm still pretty sure that the Alfa market is soft enough to still support a good GRM Challenge effort.

I loved the Fiat Spider I had. I had a 1981 with Bosch injection. I've never driven the Alfa.

A non-rusty example of either should prove enjoyable to own and drive.

They certainly can be dialled in to handle really well. I think the Alfa looks a touch nicer.

The Alfa community in the US is very well organized, and the club chapters are quite active. Start at alfabb.com, then aroc-usa.org.
Weber and Bosch equipped spiders seem to command a premium, I've owned and enjoyed both.
Later Alfas came in "spider" and "spider veloce" trim, which got you 15" wheels and leather seats.

When maintained properly, these are fun, durable sports cars.

Both Fiats and Alfas are good choices. Both have robust engines and good ergonomics. My rear seat is more properly called a parcel shelf but it came with mounting holes for seat belts which I have installed. The Pininfarina Spiders had a proper shelf and no padding. I think some early rules had the car considered as a 2+2 for insurance purposes. Both fuel injection and Weber carbs work well. The 124 Fiat Spider may be easier to retro a later model to look like an early one. Without salt on the roads and no special undercoating, my car has held up well. The Alfas have a stronger public appeal and better over all reputation but those who went the way of the Fiats know what a gem they have and are passionate they made a good choice. I feel the Fiat Spider is about as close as one can get to an economical Ferrari.

I've owned multiples of both, and there isn't a wrong choice here. I prefer the Alfa for several reasons, but it's very close. They do drive differently, so you need to look at a few before you make a choice. To me the Alfa has a more tail out, drift through the corner feel than the Fiat, where the Fiat is more slot car-ish. If anything, the Fiat feels more modern. Also, the Alfa has bit better fit and finish, but keep in mind they are Italian, so take that for what it's worth.

Anyway, I'd buy the nicest I could find and not go for a project. Keep in mind the Alfa has timing chain were the Fiat is belt driven, but you do have shimmed valve adjustments in both, and their maintenance is not a suggestion. In fact, the maintenance schedule for either is not to be ignored. I've found if you go by the book, both are remarkably reliable.