We are not all invincible.

Woody wrote:

maseratiguy wrote: I guess the gas tank isn't up front on these?

I'm pretty sure that it is.

Yes it is behind the front crossmember.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: By reading the title and the last few comments I assumed there was a death involved. He walked away. He is berkeleying invincible and all your blathering to the contrary is invalid.

It's not about him it's about the car!

But seriously, it could have been a lot worse, especially since he did get pinned between the steering wheel and seat.

Luckily the Corvair was designed to crumple like that.

I feel bad for the kid because it was a spotless southwest car and he did a lot of work to it.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: By reading the title and the last few comments I assumed there was a death involved. He walked away. He is berkeleying invincible and all your blathering to the contrary is invalid.

In my opinion SBF nailed it correctly with the title. We're not invincible, especially when we're driving vintage vehicles. Yup, the driver was very fortunate to make it through this one ... that specific incident and that specific vehicle. Very fortunate. Many of us love driving vintage vehicles. That enthusiasm actually clouds the real practicality and increased danger of doing that in the modern era. Therefore, it prompts us to think about the possible consequences of that enthusiasm. This is an interesting thread in that respect.

I'd rather die driving something fun and interesting than live forever driving anything made in the last 20 years.

It is not hugely difficult to fit a collapsible column to cars, I've seen several retrofits and in some cases it was a simple matter of bolting in a new column. One of the things I like about non stock classics is a lot of the mods make the car so much safer as well as nicer to drive. Some day we might even see ABS and air bag kits for our old cars......or not.

Glad to hear the owner walked away.

Tom

He posted on Instagram that he's staying away for classics for a while. This was his DD and I think he realized what could have happened, so he's going to look for a more modern DD.

In reply to SyntheticBlinkerFluid:

Glad he's OK but breaks my heart. My dad had a 65 Corvair. That Corvair and my mom's Austin mini 850 where the two cars I learned to drive on. I have a line on a 66 that I'm trying to convince the guy to sell to me.

I am pretty sure you can see the gas tank in the picture. It's that dark spot at the bottom of the crushed front. It sits behind the crossmember and on the other side of the firewall (if you drill a hole into the front of the firewall, you will drill into the gas tank ). I would be very surprised if it didn't leak out. It is nice that there isn't anything hot up there to set it off though.

You can put a collapsible column in a Corvair fairly easily. The Flaming River replacement boxes have an adapter that works with 66 or later columns to give it some squish. The 65 and earlier columns are one long rod from the box to the wheel. The later ones are two piece, but I am not sure how much squish they have stock. The will bend a lot easier then the long rod style though!

Regarding front engine/crumple zones. The Corvair has a crumple zone effectively by accident. I really don't think they were looking for it when they designed it. There is nothing but sheet metal in front of the front axle except for a light frame rail to attach the bumpers to, so it serves as a pretty good crumple zone.

The best way to think of how a crumple zone works is safety in an accident is all about deceleration. The slower you decelerate, the safer you are. Deceleration of course is directly related to distance TO decelerate. So, if you have more room to slow down (soft crumply parts) you will decelerate slower, take fewer g's and be safer.

A very stiff old car that does very little squishing will impart a LOT more g's of deceleration on a person then a super crumply new car. That being said, there are accidents that no one (no mater what car) will be safe in, and accidents that no one will be seriously injured it, it's the band in between that is the issue, and I am not sure how wide that is.

Looking at the picture, I am pretty surprised he did not take more damage. You can see the deformation in the steering wheel. I would have to guess he is a larger guy and the steering wheel effectively acted as a "body airbag" for him.

I was always paranoid driving my car (65 Corvair) and staring at the steering wheel thinking "My teeth are going into that wheel if I get hit". Because of that, I put the collapsible Flaming River column in as well as four point belts (Schroth auto extend / locking type so I can still move around).

I also put a 6 point (does not block entry into the car) cage in the car to provide more side impact protection. I was previously t-boned in a 65 and there is basically no structure stopping penetration on the side of those cars. The rear side window area was folded over about 45 degrees. I still want to insert some angle iron into the door at the body line to resist crushing and tie in the A pillar to the roll hoop area.

In reply to aircooled:

He's actually kind of a small guy and did break his nose and cut up his face.

Two pages and nobody has asked what he is doing with the car? Probably solid drivetrain, interior looks pretty good...

oh, and I am pleased your friend did not get shishkabobbed.

In reply to Toebra:

He has not stated yet what he's doing with the car.

Looks like a good candidate for a trike, or a sandrail drivetrain donor.

Toyman01 wrote: I'd rather die driving something fun and interesting than live forever driving anything made in the last 20 years.

Some of the best cars ever made have been made in the last 20 years.

For example...

I'd rather die in that than a 65 Corvair any day!

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:

Toyman01 wrote: I'd rather die driving something fun and interesting than live forever driving anything made in the last 20 years.

Some of the best cars ever made have been made in the last 20 years. For example... I'd rather die in that than a 65 Corvair any day!

Racing type vehicles are excluded of course.

He should be hurt worse.

We should start saying old cars aren't safer, they're more rebuildable.

Actually, that's the best example of a properly functioning crumple zone that I've seen on an older car. Remember a few years back they did a similar test on a 1950s Malibu versus it's modern equivalent? the drivers compartment of the older car ended up being the accordion section. The newer (and much blander) car performed MUCH better. It was very troubling to see. Now considering that a second gen Corvair is on my short list of cars that I'd like to own, the pictures of this accident are very reassuring.

Here it is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPF4fBGNK0U

In reply to Kreb:

I don't think the Corvair was designed to do that, it just kinda did. Note how the rear quarter panel is all wrinkled, the front crumpling like that soaked up a ton of energy, but not all of it by a long shot. This was also a best case scenario wreck, front end hit square on, if it were an offset impact towards the driver, he would probably be dead.

tuna55 wrote:

pinchvalve wrote: The idea that old cars are safer because they are big, heavy steel beasts has been proven untrue yet again. Crumple zones, collapsable steering columns, anti-intrusion beams, airbags...the list of improvements is long. And a lot of it is thanks to old Ralph...

I have to agree. I really like Corvairs though. Also super glad he walked away.

Funny thing. Years ago we laughed that Corvairs and Porsches were among the safest cars of their era. Both have a huge crush zone in the front. Yes the tank is there but it takes a pretty hard crush to get that far. But what makes them both safer is in many crash situations they do a 180* turn. So when you arrive at the crash you're going backwards and the motor and seat back absorb most of the g's.

Before I get a ton of nasty grams. Notice I said we laughed etc. etc.

I often think about the steering in my Morgan. Its an 1 1/2 pipe with with a 1/2 rod inside that goes from the wheel to the steering box right on the front axel line. Its a good think the steering wheel is so big!

Leo

Admittedly, after reading this thread I took a look at the steering shaft in my Bugeye and got a little scared. Havent found a retrofit yet and a lot of people race them, need to do some more digging.

(looks like I need to just cut one up and add a few U-joints)

In reply to Apexcarver:

Will a later (68+) Midget setup fit?

Wow! I've never seen an older car crumple up like that. His lucky day I would say.