Hey, I'm completely new to autocross, so please forgive me if I say something stupid, the most I've done is just google things at this point in time.
So, wifey and I have a 2004 Toyota Sienna that got stolen, damaged, (not beyond repair, cosmetic) and vandalized (they tried to give it a new paint job... with spray paint and no prep). I've basically written this car off, but I've taken an interest in autocross recently. Instead of getting a new car, I was wondering if it would be possible to start off with this car to try out the sport. We're not made of money, lower middle class w/ no kids, but I have a fair bit of mechanical knowledge, mostly stemming from necessity when I was younger.
I've heard of the 1:1 ratio rule, but have also read that this isn't always the standard. Just googling it, our track width is 65.6" front and 66.9" rear, and our height is 68.9". This makes the car barely not qualify, but I did have some (maybe dumb) ideas. If I changed the tire size from 215/65R16 to 215/40R16, I'd go from 5.5" of sidewall to 3.4", making me 2.1" shorter. If I also put in 2" spacers, I'd increase my track width by 4", making the car 69.6" front and 70.9" rear, and our height would be at 66.8". Aspect ratio = 1.06:1? Am I crazy?
QuikMiner03 said:
Am I crazy?
Yes, certifiably insane!
2" wheel spacers on all 4 wheels then race rubber that is 2.6" shorter diameter than stock dropping the car 1.3" makes me legal by .7“
Those are/were RX7 FD wheels wearing super sticky BFG R1s. In retrospect, too much grip. We managed to oil starve the van on the autox course which thereby oil starved the cam phasers which thereby caused the van to run off-timing and run poorly.
Less sticky tires would have been better for long term reliability ( but sacrificed some corner speeds.)
Build thread
PS: I still have the Quest's 2" spacers. (5x114.3, same as your Sienna)
You pay for shipping and I'll send them to you for free. Or, pick up in Sandusky, OH
In reply to John Welsh :
I appreciate it man, that quest looks hilarious on an autocross course! I'll run this over with my wife, we're actually relatively close (nw indiana) so I might just pick them up if that's okay. Question - being that close to the limit, did you ever have trouble going to events? Especially since, in it's stock form, it's usually not legal?
The van's one and only competition was the 2016 GRM Challenge and pre- event I did have to supply supporting evidence of the adherence to 1:1.
After, the numbers and stripes came off but the blue two tone remained. I spent about $2k having the cam phasers repaired and then about a year later sold it to a neighboring young family with kids for $2k.
I continued to see the van on the road locally. Most recently was about a year ago (or more than 5 years since I sold it...still on the road.) As a FL car, it was rust free when I got it.
Current SCCA may not be as simple as 1:1. Consult recent rules.
In reply to John Welsh :
Gotcha, I'm surprised after that it lasted that long lol
I checked the 2024 rule book and it's pretty much still 1:1, though there was something about the wheel base - "A Solo® event is open to any vehicle that can pass safety (tech) inspection, has the minimum bodywork specified by these Rules, and is properly muffled, except that vehicles with wheelbases exceeding 116” may be excluded by the Event Chairman if they determines, at their discretion, that they cannot readily negotiate the course."
I don't know if/when or how often that applies since my wheel base is a bit longer, but I'll get in contact with a couple local event leaders when I have a chance. Speaking of that, should I DM you once I do a little more research for those spacers? Definitely interested in those
Message here or direct at ......jwelsh02......yahoo.......
This weekend I'll check the stash. You know how it is; I think I know where they are?
Noddaz
PowerDork
4/12/24 2:25 p.m.
If you cut the roof off you will lose all that ugly weight up high. Just a suggestion. You could also get rid of the weight of all the interior behind the front seats.
And someone has done it.
Yup, Lower it & go with wider wheels/tires, spacers or different offset wheels.
The 2004 Sienna made 240HP. Remove all the rear seats & go have fun. I've had an Odyssey in my household for almost 15 years. You're more likely to spend money on wear & tear due to all that weight over the front wheels...but there's probably a way to have the rear end rotate a bit easier with the right swaybar/spring approach.
I am in full support of this!
Not to play Debbie Downer here (what did Debbie do to deserve that name, anyway??), but if it were mine to do I would sell the van on for whatever it will bring and take that cash plus what you were about to spend for better tires etc and buy a used car that offers more to start with for auto-x.
While I totally understand the interest in using what you already have, I cannot imagine that trying to slice through cones in a top heavy van would truly offer much fun.
Not trying to be argumentative here as I respect that it's neither my time nor resources in play here. Just offering the counter-point that you may invest a great deal of time and effort into something that doesn't really make you happy.
Also, if it were mine to do and I was going to proceed with using the van, I would reach out to the local club first to verify they will let it run before I invested penny one in getting it ready.
Just my thoughts. Carry on!
In reply to Loweguy5 :
I'll chime in and mostly agree.
Yes, I had the van above. For me, at the time, I needed a hauler and I wanted to play at The Challenge but I didn't have the coin for both. So, I bought a rust free but neglected minivan. I put in many hours (but not that many dollars) taking the van from neglected to loved. As mentioned in the build thread, in the summer before The Challenge I drove the van on family vacation to Wash DC. I also used the van for commercial deliveries right up to the week of the event which is why the graphics went on only days before the event.
So, for OP, just starting into autox, the van can be fine for starters and I'll do what I can to just get you out there trying autox. But, I whole heartedly agree that if you get bit by the autox bug...sell the van for something more autox-savy. Of course, that is if you can forgo the utility of the van during the week.
Specifically, on a budget, I would recommend an older Hyundai Accent hatchback. This one shown wearing Mini Cooper wheels. Great mpg and cheap during the week and fun on the weekend but super spartan.
I also agree to contact the group you will be running with in advance. All SCCA groups (and similar) have a safety steward that should be very accessible via email.
So, recap: Running the van is better than not running at all. Running anything other than the van will be more rewarding.
Thanks for all of the input!
I'll definitely check in with the local clubs. I've got some thinking in terms of what exactly I want to do.
That's the van shortly after we got it back from the police, next to 2 of our other cars.. It's the only picture I can find, but both passenger doors are messed up (I have a replacement for the front passenger door) and because of the messed up body panels and paint on everything, even a junk yard doesn't really want the car besides for the working engine and transmission lol. It's been a trooper though, it's pushed SUVs, towed a couple cars out of ditches, bumper pushed other broken cars around over at our friend's house.. for the, what, $500 i'd get from scrapping it I'd honestly rather at least try running it I think, though I would have to put at least another couple hundred into it to run it. We do have too many cars though.. we plan on scrapping a '00 mustang, and selling our '17 spark, and the Sienna was going to go to the scrap yard too to be honest, I'm just undecided. It'd leave us with a '23 Subaru Ascent and '05 Honda Odyssey, the odyssey being built out for the detailing business I run and the Ascent is our daily driver pretty much.
I could scrap and sell those cars and get a hatchback or something more fun like John mentioned though, that's not a terrible idea. We're not rich, just have a car hoarding problem because we never actually had good working cars in our childhoods 😂
P.S. I have thought about running our Spark, but the extremely unresponsive, unreliable, and hesitant CVT it has, paired with the grand total of 96 horsepower, would make it way less fun than the Sienna, at least for me. It would handle a lot better, though.
Keep the wife in the new car (and keep her safe and happy.) It is what I did in our house. Keep the Odyssey work van. Consolidate everything else down to one budget, fun car.
'00 Mustang. Can this be saved? If it is a 6cyl, I understand not saving it.
'17 Spark. Is this just your frugal commuter? It should be new enough that it is still worth real money. Replace with something similarly frugal but more entertaining. As for running the Spark, it too likely has 1:1 issues.
In reply to QuikMiner03 :
I have on several occasions put my nieces CVT Spark into limp home mode with what I consider just slightly aggressive driving. Would agree that you shouldn't autocross it.
Don't limit yourself to just SCCA events.
In reply to John Welsh :
Yeah, honestly that's the game plan.
The mustang is a v6, plus it has major rust damage. It was given to us by her family though, so I'm not too salty - it was sitting there broken in their yard and they gave it to us and figured we could fix it but there are many other issues 😅
The Spark I am completely done with - I've replaced way too many parts for the amount of time I've owned it (1 1/2 yrs, from 50k miles to 85k, water pump, starter, suspension, thermostat, pulley, etc) and now the CV axles need to be replaced. I'm just going to fix it and sell it, plus, now that it's at 85k that Jatco CVT is a timebomb.
About the Hyundai - I did some research and according to what I can find, anything pre-2012 is actually taller than it is wide, but 2012+ is 58.6″ front, 58.8″ rear, and 57.1″ high. Other people have definitely run this car though, weird. I've done some research and that platform does look fun
In reply to Woody (Forum Supportum) :
If you don't mind elaborating, what similar events are held here in the mid-west? I've tried but have failed to find anything remotely close to as affordable as SCCA is
Check the SCCA rule book for a general rule regarding wheel spacers. I know at least one club with an absolute 1/2" maximum for wheel spacers in any class.
