150 lb plastic motor

HappyAndy wrote: I'm wondering if this "Plastic" is actually more like a ceramic. Like is this material technically plastic, bit with properties more like ceramic, or is a hybrid of sorts. I have a hard time seeing a plastic engine lasting long, ceramic, OTOH, could be a whole different story.

The article did say it was a composite. Like ceramics are, like metal alloys are, etc.

Still, you guys are picturing this wrong. The article doesn't say that the plastic is holding combustion inside. It's just the rest of the engine that holds the combustion chamber in place.

And noting the strength of composite in F1 transmissions, I have no doubt that it's strong enough to hold camshafts and crankshafts in place. As wells as being used for the connecting rod. And heck- much of the piston could probably be plastic.

Guess I need to read the article again.

Still- with all of that- and just keeping a few bits metal- that does reduce the weight a LOT.

In-Depth with Matti Holtzberg and His Composite Engine Block

I remember an old Motor Trend issue that featured a picture of plastic wheels on the cover. It was going to be the next big thing. That was over 30 years ago and I don't think you can buy plastic wheels yet...

Time will tell on the engine. Materials have come a long way in 30+ years.

...and "Torlon" sounds like the newest villain in next year's CGI hit...

In reply to stan:

Depends on what you think plastic is. You can call carbon fiber plastic- since it's a long carbon chained structure. And you can get carbon fiber wheels. Heck, just saw that they will be available on a Mustang soon. OEM.

stan wrote: I remember an *old* Motor Trend issue that featured a picture of plastic wheels on the cover. It was going to be the next big thing. That was over 30 years ago and I don't think you can buy plastic wheels yet...

Wasn't there a low-end American sporty car sold with composite wheels in the '80s?

This is really more of a CF engine than a plastic engine. I think it'll hold up. But at $50k per block and only 20lbs of weight savings over aluminum, it's going to be a loooong time before a mere mortal's car comes from the factory with one.

Carbon Fiber is actually the short hand for Carbon Fiber Reinforced Polymer/plastic, or CFRP...Or sometimes even Carbon Fiber Reinforced ThermoPlastic, or CFRTP. The resin part of composites makes them technically plastics. While certain types of CF can exceed 50% carbon fiber content, I doubt if their tiny carbon fiber hair infused injectable goo comes anywhere near that.

Edit: A quick Google search shows this to be ~30% carbon fibers, leaving it ~70% Polyamide-imide.

.

Knurled wrote: Crosley Cobra? Cobra = COpper BRAzed. The engine was made of brazed copper.

Copper was simply the brazing agent. The primary metallic structure was stamped steel sheet metal.

Some sort of composite is a great idea in the long run for cars. People keep comparing these with bike engines which I never understand. Bike engines have a totally different design directive, they are designed for small ultra light vehicles and they would never work even in a small family car where mom and pop want to lug up a hill in top gear, they just don't make the torque and the clutch and transmission just simply aren't up to moving even a sub B class car with four people and luggage up a Colorado mountain for 100K miles.

Obviously the materials are super expensive right now, but with time and quantity they will come down. I wonder how the cost and weight compare to BMW and other's magnesium blocks with cast in aluminium liners etc. If you designed an engine with the same size and load goals I wonder how they would stack up?

In reply to Adrian_Thompson:

Another reason is Yamaha and other bike manufacturers have more than a few patents in this area.

GameboyRMH wrote:

stan wrote: I remember an *old* Motor Trend issue that featured a picture of plastic wheels on the cover. It was going to be the next big thing. That was over 30 years ago and I don't think you can buy plastic wheels yet...

Wasn't there a low-end American sporty car sold with composite wheels in the '80s? This is really more of a CF engine than a plastic engine. I think it'll hold up. But at $50k per block and only 20lbs of weight savings over aluminum, it's going to be a loooong time before a mere mortal's car comes from the factory with one.

1989 Shelby Dodge Shadow CSX

http://www.shelbycsx.com/specs.wheels.shtml

stan wrote: That was over 30 years ago and I don't think you can buy plastic wheels yet...

I smashed a couple dozen plastic BMX wheels back then. I was not going to be an early adopter for cars ;)

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:

stan wrote: That was over 30 years ago and I don't think you can buy plastic wheels yet...

I smashed a couple dozen plastic BMX wheels back then. I was not going to be an early adopter for cars ;)