$2013 Challenge bonus points

We thought we'd try something new for the $2013 Challenge: bonus points for certain cars. We figured it would liven up things a bit. So far it's been met with a giant yawn--and that's putting it mildly.

If those bonus points were to go away tomorrow, would anyone be upset?

Not that my vote counts, but no. Won't be able to make it until '14.

I think the bonus points just complicate things.

Depends on the categories:

Fastest nude driver

Most George Foreman grills in a challenge car

Highest top speed in reverse

etc, etc

I would get help from those bonus points and I think they should go away.

not participating, but I have an opinion on it.

If GRM's goal for the challenge is to generate a specific type of content for articles, and having more oddball cars is one of the goals for magazine content, leave them alone.

If, OTOH, the goal for the challenge is to generate a specific type of content for articles, and budget drag race/autocross content is the goal, get rid of them.

I love the crazy cars and fabrication. Ranger50 (judging from the other threads) appears to want "fabrication" limited to patching rust in the floor. What do YOU GUYS want to write about?

[edit: my general tendency is to think that rule changes - especially ones chosen after people are already building - tend to foster controversy. This may be a case where they're justified, though.]

JoeyM wrote: Ranger50 (judging from the other threads) appears to want "fabrication" limited to patching rust in the floor.

No, it isn't. I don't want to see ultracreative or "tortured" rules interpretations. That leads to rules creep because who is going to say no, especially if it generates editoral? Nobody should really showing up with reams of paper stuffed into 3 ring binders explaining everything or claiming things that are there that maybe or maybe not there because they are "hidden". Capisce?

I have an orphan car and could benefit from the bonus points. That being said, the bonus points need to go away.

Ranger50 wrote:

JoeyM wrote: Ranger50 (judging from the other threads) appears to want "fabrication" limited to patching rust in the floor.

No, it isn't. I don't want to see ultracreative or "tortured" rules interpretations. That leads to rules creep because who is going to say no, especially if it generates editoral? Nobody should really showing up with reams of paper stuffed into 3 ring binders explaining everything or claiming things that are there that maybe or maybe not there because they are "hidden". Capisce?

I'm sending you a PM....there's no need for me to flounder a bonus points thread with my fabrication-based reply.

If you're giving bonus points for oddball cars, does that mean you're giving deductions “the answer" cars?

The competition winner should be car that garners the most points for performance and polish. End of story. Anything else seems like pandering to an audience that doesn't really care about the Chalenge in the long run.

The Challenge is distinctly different from LeMons or Chumpcar. It's more of an athletic event than a pageant. Themes or favoring weirdness seems out of character with the original purpose.

If anything, creating a "circuit" or other challenge-type competitions around the country might spur the growth you guys seem to be looking for, just like LeMons moved from being a one-off to a perennial traveling circus. Various autocross clubs could host special competition weekends for Challenge competitors. Creating more outlets for the machines might persuade more people to build them since they'll be competing more than once a year like they do now (excepting development trials).

The one aspect many cars seem to lack is development time. Builds often go right up to the parking lot the night before the challenge. Many cars come back in subsequent years to do much better (see current champion). Three or four regional competitions could lead to crowning a national champion at the "Challenge Finals" in Gainsville with a deep field of fully-sorted cars.

The obligatory comic themes are, in fact, one thing that disappoints me about LeMons. I don't want to see a bunch of rolling crap wearing goofy hats. I want to see cheap, well-performing enduro racers.

Same with the Challenge. As a reader, I most enjoy seeing the vehicles, not the cutesy stuff. I do like the sidebar prizes, but bonus points for the main competition don't interest me.

In reply to Duke:

+1 I agree completely. I would love to race LeMons, but don't want to look stupid doing it. Don't get me wrong, I do laugh at funny stuff like the zamboni locost or the mach 1.5 MR2, but at LeMons takes it too far.

If only you could combine the two.

BoostedBrandon wrote: In reply to Duke: +1 I agree completely. I would love to race LeMons, but don't want to look stupid doing it. Don't get me wrong, I do laugh at funny stuff like the zamboni locost or the mach 1.5 MR2, but at LeMons takes it too far. If only you could combine the two.

I believe you're discussing chumpcar.

Not from what I've seen in the coverage. Chumpcar looks much more like cheap racecars. LeMons looks like crapcans with a bunch of junk welded/drywall screwed all over it:

Google image search for "lemons racing" and "chumpcar racing". Count the number of stupid hats on the first page of results - very heavily weighted toward LeMons.

Sorry to go OT with that - I say make some accessory prizes like "Best Theme" or "Most Obscure Car" or whatever tickles your fancy, but don't consider that stuff in the concours or performance categories that go into ranking the entrants.

Glad you guys agree

How was it even slightly possible to get a mini legal?

Did I miss something? Exactly what would the bonus points be awarded for? Points for success in venues outside the challenge would be cool,(like AX, RX, hillclimbs, TTs, bracket racing), but points for goofy themes or obscure cars sounds week and could cheapen the challenge.

This is the exact wording from this site

To even the playing field for teams coming with cars bearing a huge disadvantage, points will be added at the judging staff’s discretion based on the following criteria. Cars are eligible for points in more than one category.
Soviet Bloc cars: 5 points. No, German cars don’t count unless they’re Trabants. Nice try.
French cars: 3 points.
Italian cars: 2 points.
Geo Metro Convertible: 1 point. This is the Darren Rule.
Other orphan brand cars: 0 to 3 points. Orphan brands are either defunct (Saturn, Pontiac, Oldsmobile, and also ones that aren’t former GM subsidiaries) or no longer sell in the U.S.
Incognito cars: 0 to 3 points. This covers replicas and kit cars.
Star Wars cars: 0 to 3 points. Any car with a Star Wars theme or style is eligible.
Classic cars: 0 to 3 points. Anything from a model year of 1983 or older is eligible.

Under the orphan rule, I could get a bonus for entering a Firebird, but not a Camaro even though they are basically the same car. Entering a P71? Slap some Grand Marquis badges on it for e-z points! I'm all for flexing the rules!

(Aussie, I think your Mustang just became a Capri... )

In response to popular opinion, we shall kill that rule with fire.

Thank you voicing your opinions.

If I may...

There is always a balance between a fairly open ruleset which allows racers to really think their way into prepping/building a car. Think the fuel classes of NHRA in the early days, when any engine combo, any fuel combo, any engine/driver orientation, any drive type, anything went down the track. The other side is like the current NASCAR COT stuff. Essentially these are spec tube frame cars. For sure, a spec race most of the time draws a bigger, but very different crowd. Do you want a giant legion of mainstream fans or a smaller, more passionate and informed group of hardcore fans?

I know this is to generate magazine content. I am glad you went this direction. As it is, I take the NHRA points and look at the results before the silly "countown" thing started - I can't watch the CoT run around the track. I watch as a 'interested potential entrant' rather than a 'spectator' - always have, always will. I am glad there's enough in your audience to see it that way.

And thanks for listening to the feedback you've been given. You guys are a rather humble "sanctioning body".

I've been looking damn hard for your "bonus oddball cars" and coming up empty even in Atlanta. It may take a year to actually find that rare jewel. You might just have to settle on a sweeeeet Plymouth Valiant for a 2nd racer I have my eye on. A "Valiant effort" for trying...

It's cool seeing weird stuff at the Challenge getting flogged, but I'd rather see something go stupid fast for cheap money, and I don't care who makes it.