In reply to Bobzilla:
How about this article showing the CTR making a lot of rwd and AWD cars look like chumps.
In reply to Bobzilla:
How about this article showing the CTR making a lot of rwd and AWD cars look like chumps.
Robbie wrote: In reply to Bobzilla: https://www.google.com/amp/www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/gmp6778/suv-hatchback-sedan-nurburgring-lap/ How about this article showing the CTR making a lot of rwd and AWD cars look like chumps.
Good for them. Still an ugly, over-done, $40k fwd econo-car.
Driven5 wrote: In reply to Bobzilla: How many buyers are realistically cross shopping 10 year old Caddies and Beemers against brand new Civic Type R's? Or 2+2's against proper 4-doors? People looking at one are probably doing so for reasons that will most commonly exclude them from looking at the other...With a possible few exceptions, most of who would at the very least fit in well around here. Ultimately, your comments simply reinforce this notion. Each is generally appealing to completely separate demographics, even if both are more than capable of holding their own at the track...And since it's all purely subjective, there is absolutely nothing wrong with either.
The problem here is the price vs. styling as I see it. Most people shopping this price category will probably overlook the CTR. Look at the sales of 86's and BRZs. At around $28 to $32k, they are still having a tough time getting the customer base that wants them, mostly due to them not having the coin to purchase one new. At $35 to $40k, people with that type of money to spend typically want a far different car. It may be by far the best Civic ever, but they've styled and priced it in a way to make it an iffy sales proposition.
I hope the guys at Honda don't sit back and say, "gee, we built this fantastic car and nobody wanted it. There must not be a market. Let's go back to adding cup holders and forget performance."
I don't think anyone here would say the FiST or FoST don't look decent, imagine those with the CTR performance and reliability.
Of course I say all this, but I do understand beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
In reply to grumpzilla:
I'm not saying you're wrong since it's just your opinion.
But I do find it funny that the Hyundai guy has so much Honda hate.
Econobox and FWD clearly don't bother you so much, so this dislike is based on looks and (misquoted, I think) price alone?
I agree with you BTW, that I'm not in the market for one at 40k, (or 35k 
), but I still love the idea of the lightweight supersedan fighter coming from Honda.
Ninja edit: supersedan not supercar.
In reply to Robbie:
Exactly! 
In reply to Robbie:
FINE, 35k before taxes, license etc. still a $40k econo-box. Honda has made E36 M3 for years now. I saw plenty of that chucking their parts for 10 years. Yet people still equate the junk they're churning out as the same as the great cars they offered in the 90's. Same with Toyota. They've both sat on their asses for years riding their names. So no... not a fan.
If I want an econobox, I'll buy an econobox for $15-20k. If I want a track ready car for $40k (fine, $35) it's not going to be FWD and it's not going to be an econobox.
Look, I'm glad Honda may be slowly waking up from its slumber of laziness. But this thing isn't that great.
YMMV, IMHO, yadda yadda yadda.
Also... didn't you know that the Koreans and the Japanese are like oil and water?
Bobzilla wrote: FINE, 35k before taxes, license etc. still a $40k econo-box.
But it comes with two tickets to the Player Haters Ball.
I'll be curious to see how these pseudo rally-looking cars sell. It seems the FiST is selling pretty well, and maybe the FoST too, but those are in a lower price bracket. I"m not sure there are enough buyers in the $40K range for cars like the Focus RS, and CTR, seeing how many other appealing alternatives are available. Generally folks with $40K to spend are a bit older, and they may find the Amime-inspired styling off-putting.
I'm sure not seeing many new STi's in this area anymore, so I wonder how many folks will ante up. Looks notwithstanding, they are all pretty amazing machines.
In all fairness, I've always had a distaste for Honda's in general.
In reply to Joe Gearin:
I think that's going to be it's major problem. 40k is a lot of money for econobox obnoxious, which is pretty much what I'd roll the FoRS, Golf R, STi and CTR into. I'm sure we can argue fit and finish all day long but that 35k - 41k price range contains the Genesis G80, BMW 4 series, Audi S3 and A5, Kia Stinger (Rumored), Volvo S60 and V60, and a BRZ with a Supercharger.
I'll be the first to admit I never really grew out of the F&F phase of my life but for 40k you really have to want the the hotted up econobox.
I say this as I look at my 2011 MS3 (Which was $24,200 MSRP new) parked outside.
In reply to The0retical:
That's what I keep saying, but I get called hater.
Besides, if hotted up econobox is what you want, grab a Forte5 SX, turbo/tune it for the same power and roll. You can get 300whp from a 1.6T engine for much less than $35k, even if you bought a new car for $25k. Buy used and it gets even sillier.
EDIT: Just found a 2015 with 12k miles for $14,900, BTR stage 1 kit (250whp) for $2000. Add whatever wheel/tire combo you want and an LSD for another $2500. That means CTR knockoff for $19k without all the weird styling.
In reply to Bobzilla:
I think it's cool in so far as it exists but I can't see it being 31% better (assuming 35K) than my hotted up econohatch from six years ago (call it 4 if I had a 2013 but I don't.)
The0retical wrote: In reply to Joe Gearin: I think that's going to be it's major problem. 40k is a lot of money for econobox obnoxious, which is pretty much what I'd roll the FoRS, Golf R, STi and CTR into. I'm sure we can argue fit and finish all day long but that 35k - 41k price range contains the Genesis G80, BMW 4 series, Audi S3 and A5, Kia Stinger (Rumored), Volvo S60 and V60, and a BRZ with a Supercharger. I'll be the first to admit I never really grew out of the F&F phase of my life but for 40k you really have to want the the hotted up econobox. I say this as I look at my 2011 MS3 (Which was $24,200 MSRP new) parked outside.
Don't forget the BMW 2-series, which starts at an MSRP of $33K. 0-60 in under 5 seconds, and an extremely capable rwd chassis. Or jump up to $50K and get the absolutely amazing M2--- which is probably BMW's best car. Yes, $50K is a substantial amount of money......but it's only $10K more than a Civic! 
Joe Gearin wrote: Don't forget the BMW 2-series, which starts at an MSRP of $33K. 0-60 in under 5 seconds, and an extremely capable rwd chassis.
I had to look that up...that's crazy value. Had no idea the base ones were that quick.
calteg wrote:Joe Gearin wrote: Don't forget the BMW 2-series, which starts at an MSRP of $33K. 0-60 in under 5 seconds, and an extremely capable rwd chassis.I had to look that up...that's crazy value. Had no idea the base ones were that quick.
Yep--- dimensionally they feel a lot like an E36. Small enough to be nimble, big enough to be useful. You can also see out of them....which is nice (and rare) these days. It's a lot of car for the $$.
I do not need to know these things Joe.
Joe Gearin wrote:The0retical wrote: In reply to Joe Gearin: I think that's going to be it's major problem. 40k is a lot of money for econobox obnoxious, which is pretty much what I'd roll the FoRS, Golf R, STi and CTR into. I'm sure we can argue fit and finish all day long but that 35k - 41k price range contains the Genesis G80, BMW 4 series, Audi S3 and A5, Kia Stinger (Rumored), Volvo S60 and V60, and a BRZ with a Supercharger. I'll be the first to admit I never really grew out of the F&F phase of my life but for 40k you really have to want the the hotted up econobox. I say this as I look at my 2011 MS3 (Which was $24,200 MSRP new) parked outside.Don't forget the BMW 2-series, which starts at an MSRP of $33K. 0-60 in under 5 seconds, and an extremely capable rwd chassis. Or jump up to $50K and get the absolutely amazing M2--- which is probably BMW's best car. Yes, $50K is a substantial amount of money......but it's only $10K more than a Civic!
This is the first rational argument against the CTR in the thread...other than fugly.
racerdave600 wrote: I do not need to know these things Joe.
If it helps finding a 2 series with a stick and optioned right is hard as hell. Ordering is your only bet.
Joe Gearin wrote: pseudo rally-looking cars
Rally "style" is all about off-road functional - the opposite of the "stance" style....which is far closer to what this Civic looks like with its 20" wheels and low-to-the ground cladding. I'd say it's the opposite of rally-style, personally.
I always LOVE JG's car reviews
I want to drive one.
C. I have no berkeleying clue what FiST's and FoST's are.
.
Bobzilla wrote:Besides, if hotted up econobox is what you want, grab a Forte5 SX, turbo/tune it for the same power and roll. You can {...} buy used and it gets even sillier.
EDIT: Just found a 2015 with 12k miles for $14,900, BTR stage 1 kit (250whp) for $2000. Add whatever wheel/tire combo you want and an LSD for another $2500. That means CTR knockoff for $19k without all the weird styling.
And Velociter Turbos are a couple years older, and more depreciated with the same engine/chassis, albeit without the same trunk space (guess where my evening went)
.
Smarta$$ McPoopyPants wrote:C. I have no berkeleying clue what FiST's and FoST's are.
FiST = Fiesta ST
FoST = Focus ST
iirc
irish44j wrote:Joe Gearin wrote: pseudo rally-looking carsRally "style" is all about off-road functional - the opposite of the "stance" style....which is far closer to what this Civic looks like with its 20" wheels and low-to-the ground cladding. I'd say it's the opposite of rally-style, personally.
When 'people' think rally style they're thinking WRC or GRC. Auto sytlists aren't looking at NASA Rally events wondering how they can make their new cars look like slightly dented 35 year old sedans. 
You'll need to log in to post.
