An electrified future doesn’t have to be all doom and gloom, right? Just look at the freshly unveiled 2025 BMW M5.
Sure, it’s a hybrid, but consider that both the 2025 M5 and outgoing M5 are both powered by a twin-turbo V8 rated at nearly identical power outputs: 577 horsepower and 5…
as heavy or heavier than an F150, depending on the trim. maybe the next generation will be the same weight as the F250
You buried the lede-- available as a wagon!
Karacticus said:You buried the lede-- available as a wagon!
Hmm ... no mention of the M5 Touring in the most recent release from BMW. Interesting. I guess they'll keep us waiting on that.
gixxeropa said:as heavy or heavier than an F150, depending on the trim. maybe the next generation will be the same weight as the F250
For those who may be wondering (or not), the M5 shares the same basic hybrid architecture as the XM. The M5 has a smaller battery, as well as different gear ratios and final drive. I wouldn't be surprised to see more M cars come with hybrid powertrains.
When I've driven the XM on mountain back roads and in the desert, and it felt incredibly car-like for its size. If they transfer that over to the M5, then it should be amazing. However, when you put vehicles on track, it puts weight truly to the test.
J.A. Ackley said:gixxeropa said:as heavy or heavier than an F150, depending on the trim. maybe the next generation will be the same weight as the F250
For those who may be wondering (or not), the M5 shares the same basic hybrid architecture as the XM. The M5 has a smaller battery, as well as different gear ratios and final drive. I wouldn't be surprised to see more M cars come with hybrid powertrains.
When I've driven the XM on mountain back roads and in the desert, and it felt incredibly car-like for its size. If they transfer that over to the M5, then it should be amazing. However, when you put vehicles on track, it puts weight truly to the test.
Having followed an X5M around a track, BMW can make that kind of weight work there too, at least for as long as you can keep tires underneath it.
This thing weighs 1,000 pounds more than a body-on-frame, iron V8, solid rear axle Buick Roadmaster station wagon. What the hell is BMW doing?
J.A. Ackley said:Karacticus said:You buried the lede-- available as a wagon!
Hmm ... no mention of the M5 Touring in the most recent release from BMW. Interesting. I guess they'll keep us waiting on that.
Odd that it wasn't included in the press release, but we did cover news of the M5 Touring back in April:
Wagon lovers rejoice: BMW to bring the M5 Touring to America
maschinenbau said:This thing weighs 1,000 pounds more than a body-on-frame, iron V8, solid rear axle Buick Roadmaster station wagon. What the hell is BMW doing?
Three reasons. One, it's an EV. Two, it has a hell of a lot more stuff in it than that Roadmaster (tech, safety, luxury, etc). And third, it's an EV.
I don't care how fast it is I just can't get remotely excited about a 5400lb anything that doesn't tow stuff for it's living. I just can't. I know vehicle dynamics. I understand that with power, tires, brakes, and engineering it can be just as fast as something more appropriately weighted.
The cost of consumables on that car must be astonishing.
Eh, it's not really an EV though. 25 miles of all-electric range means it isn't dragging around a giant heavy battery compared to something like an Ionic 5 N or a Model S Plaid. Heck, this thing is like 600 pounds HEAVIER than the Tesla.
Maybe BMW took inspiration from Nissan and just shoved extra parts and metal everywhere? It's baffling.
Tom Suddard said:Eh, it's not really an EV though. 25 miles of all-electric range means it isn't dragging around a giant heavy battery compared to something like an Ionic 5 N or a Model S Plaid. Heck, this thing is like 600 pounds HEAVIER than the Tesla.
Maybe BMW took inspiration from Nissan and just shoved extra parts and metal everywhere? It's baffling.
True. But, being a hybrid, it has two powertrains to haul around, so... Still pretty heavy.
My '74 Caddy Eldorado weighs 5000 pounds. A BMW XM weighs 6061. XM feels light-years nimbler than the Caddy.
However ...
Got to drive a 2024 BMW i5 (5247 pounds) and a 2024 BMW M3 Competition (3890 pounds) on track, back to back, and the M3 felt far nimbler. But the i5 was fun getting on the accelerator off the corners, more so, perhaps, than the M3. You still felt the i5's weight, though, but it kind made it more challenging, right? 
Colin Wood said:...if an electrified future means having the ability to add significant power gains by slapping on an electric motor or two, that’s something to get excited about, right?
So heavier, slower, and more expensive... What exactly am I supposed to be getting excited about?
Power is just a number.
I'm actually pretty stoked for these to depreciate wildly. The last M-car I took to the scrapyard (an E36 M3 sedan shell) was only worth like $400. This thing is so heavy it will scrap for the price of a clean E30!
Any idea why they're doing this? Is there a corporate benefit from the additional fuel economy? I mean in terms of mandated averages? Or some emissions related nonsense they have the comply with that make it advantageous for BMW?
Otherwise, I suppose I must be missing something... I mean, the EV element could be a fuel cost saver, but does anyone buying a $120,000 M5 really care about fuel economy savings?
In my mind, I see this: it costs roughly ~$10,000 more than the outgoing non-hybrid version... it's 1000 lbs heavier... there will be even more complexity to the car (i.e. more things to break/wear out)... the extra heft and torque will add more cost to the consumables... and it's 0-60 time is actually slower than the non-hybrid version... what in the world am I missing? Do the wealthy folks that can even afford this car really care that much about fuel economy savings?
I just did a comparison on fueleconomy.gov between the current M5 and the much lower 530e xDrive plug-in hybrid (which would still get much better mileage than an M5 hybrid), 15,000 miles a year, 45% highway. Annual fuel costs were $3950 vs $2050. By my math, it would take ~5 years to break even on the additional cost of the car if it got anywhere near the ratings of the much lower powered 530e. I suppose if you never use gas (short commute, light throttle inputs), there could be some real fuel cost savings, but at that point- why bother buying a 700hp M5?
My feeble brain just can't comprehend.
In reply to roninsoldier83 :
The folks buying these cars like to talk about what it can do, the tech it has and so on. Does it really matter to them? No.
Side note, I saw a clean E39 M5 on the road the other day. That's a nice looking car.
In reply to Ian F (Forum Supporter) :
That's a fair point. I suppose I failed to consider the car from a bragging rights perspective. You're probably spot on.
One motivation for hybrids is city centers in Europe banning ICE engines. Having some moderate EV only range allows the cars into those areas and back out again.
This is what I hear anyway. No idea how that would be enforced.
Not to be a downer, but I'm also not excited by more power and MORE weight. I already shudder at $1000 for a set of tires and that's not even a lot anymore. This thing would make my wallet cry for help.
I get it, EVs are heavy. Batteries are heavy. Technology is ever evolving and I expect they will get lighter in the future.
Having a lot of experience with the Taycan, I can say first hand that done right EVs can be fantastic driving cars. Yeah, it's heavy and it always reminds you of that fact. However, in the higher trim levels the acceleration is mind blowing. Handling is also very good, as the COG is down low. No, it's nowhere near as nimble as a 718 or 992, but it's very respectable. I can't wait to get my hands on the hybrid 911!!
Has the M5 ever even been considered light weight in the first place? I always thought it was a heavy, opulent pig that just had the power turned up.
You don't buy an M5 because you want a kart, you buy it for the status and the luxury.
This is dumb its slower than the old one to 60, and that's one of the benefits of electric motors.
It's heavier than my fullsize truck, which had literally no attention paid to weight, illustrated by pretty much the only use of aluminum in the whole truck being the wheels.
This thing is going to mow through consumables.
I think the headlines wrong. Should be "Proof that an electrified future is going to be dumb"
RevRico said:Has the M5 ever even been considered light weight in the first place? I always thought it was a heavy, opulent pig that just had the power turned up.
You don't buy an M5 because you want a kart, you buy it for the status and the luxury.
Exactly. It's a high-speed panzer made for the autobahn. It's not a small, nimble track car.
Tom_Spangler (Forum Supporter) said:RevRico said:Has the M5 ever even been considered light weight in the first place? I always thought it was a heavy, opulent pig that just had the power turned up.
You don't buy an M5 because you want a kart, you buy it for the status and the luxury.
Exactly. It's a high-speed panzer made for the autobahn. It's not a small, nimble track car.
Why are we bashing the M5 for not being a small and nimble kart? It's not supposed to be. If you want a small and nimble kart, BMW has one. Porsche has one. The M5 is supposed to be big, and with size will come the weight. Take into consideration how big the car is, by design, then evaluate it accordingly. To me, this is like bashing a Boxster because it can't carry 4 suitcases while towing your 40' RV.
Except the new M5 is slower than the old M5 as well. Per The Drive:
"Some of that added mass comes from the new M5’s hybrid system, which amps up total output to 717 horsepower and 738 lb-ft of torque. But while the last-gen M5 made just 600 hp and 553 lb-ft, it still had a better power-to-weight ratio. As a result, the new M5 is slower from zero to 60 mph: It takes 3.4 seconds, whereas the 2021 took just 3.2."
So, hey, it may be half a ton heavier and likely considerably more expensive, but at least it's slower.
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