All highway, between -3 to -2.5 camber on soft tires. Due to extra travelling weight the height will be raised so figured the camber could be fiddled with along with more psi. Make sense?
NOW I wish my little Harbor Freight trailer had the bigger tires. Maybe I will pick up a spare.
Definitely. What are you driving that runs that much static? I have that setup on me ms3 and I thought I was being stupid aggressive with it.
Camber doesnt wear tires as much as toe. I wouldnt bother unless it's really easy. I tend to run at least that much and don't notice a ton of camber-related wear.
In reply to mndsm:
EP3 Civic. Even with caster tweaked in the camber makes a real difference. The RA1s up front have between 1/2 to 1 mm more inside wear after 10 months. I have about 4 caster and will increase to around 7 so maybe I'll cut back the camber then.
Swank Force One wrote: Camber doesnt wear tires as much as toe. I wouldnt bother unless it's really easy. I tend to run at least that much and don't notice a ton of camber-related wear.
It's easy and I'll be in there raising the height anyway. I keep the toe minimal, hence the good wear.
Upping height will likely take some camber out, I wouldn't worry about it.
Swank Force One wrote: Camber doesnt wear tires as much as toe. I wouldnt bother unless it's really easy. I tend to run at least that much and don't notice a ton of camber-related wear.
what he said … I put ~ 4 - 5k mi. per yr on my CRX (-3 1/2° camber on the front tires and - 1 1/2°on the rears)…. 20 - 25 a-x and 3-4 track days/TT per yr … highway driving to and from the a-x (2 1/2 hrs each way) … and the only time I've ever noticed any undue wear was when a bolt had loosened on the LCA ..causing a huge change in toe … good thing it was near the end of the life of those tires anyway
Yeah, toe is what wears tires. Camber just moves the resulting wear spot around. So if the toe is in the ballpark then camber is not going to be a problem, since tires do flex.
Swank Force One wrote: Camber doesnt wear tires as much as toe.
its easy to understand why toe wears tires faster, but camber will too.
90 miles a day highway commuting with zero front toe and -2.3 degrees camber and I was eating up the insides of my front tires. I assume ride height and suspension design also play a part of that too.
To combat the tire wear I took out the camber bolts and re-installed the stock strut bolts. No idea how that affected the toe, I Still get slightly more wear on the inside but not enough to ruin tires. Got 50k miles out of the last set and I am ok with that. I am guessing the oem alignment specs call for some slight toe in.
SF1 I wasnt trying to call you out specifically just using your statement (that I have heard approximately one billion times before on the internet) as an example for you guys to maybe learn me somethign.
2.5 static 0 toe chewed up my star specs.....
Curmudgeon wrote: Yeah, toe is what wears tires. Camber just moves the resulting wear spot around. So if the toe is in the ballpark then camber is not going to be a problem, since tires do flex.
^this. I have been running DDs that I also run in ST autocross classes for years. -2.5 front camber was typical. I never thought I was comprimising the life of my tires with camber. I put over 80k miles on my RSX running that much camber. Camber will move the spot that the tire wears but you need to keep toe as close to zero as you can, at least when you are DD. Nothing wrong with adding some toe out for the ax event. 
When I was driving my Neons ~70 miles a day, -2.5d camber did nothing but improve the front tire wear.
failboat wrote:Swank Force One wrote: Camber doesnt wear tires as much as toe.its easy to understand why toe wears tires faster, but camber will too. 90 miles a day highway commuting with zero front toe and -2.3 degrees camber and I was eating up the insides of my front tires. I assume ride height and suspension design also play a part of that too. To combat the tire wear I took out the camber bolts and re-installed the stock strut bolts. No idea how that affected the toe, I Still get slightly more wear on the inside but not enough to ruin tires. Got 50k miles out of the last set and I am ok with that. I am guessing the oem alignment specs call for some slight toe in. SF1 I wasnt trying to call you out specifically just using your statement (that I have heard approximately one billion times before on the internet) as an example for you guys to maybe learn me somethign.
Were you seeing wear just on the inner edge or gradually increasing wear across the surface of the tire? If you're just eating up the inner 1-2", that's toe. It may not be static toe, but it can be dynamic changes due to worn or deflecting suspension components.
Anytime you change camber, you must adjust toe.
On my ZX2SR if I went from stock camber to 2.5/3 negative or back, it took about 3 turns on each tie rod to re align the toe.
Keith Tanner wrote: Were you seeing wear just on the inner edge or gradually increasing wear across the surface of the tire? If you're just eating up the inner 1-2", that's toe. It may not be static toe, but it can be dynamic changes due to worn or deflecting suspension components.
There was wear across the tire however the inner 2 inches or so were worn much more. The car was aligned right after installing a set of springs and set to zero toe and -2.3* camber. car (09 hyundai accent se) only had 15k miles on it at the time. Probably put about 20-25k miles on the car with that alignment before sticking the oem bolts back in. (I moved, longer commute, stopped autocrossing, etc..my needs for the car changed)
i understand any suspension adjustment will affect toe so i have no idea what the toe is at now but I am much more satisfied with how its been wearing for the past 80k miles or so.
didnt read all the replies but toe wears tires much more than camber, also with the height being raised you'll gain some camber anyway. if the toe is reasonable you'll be fine
iceracer wrote: Anytime you change camber, you must adjust toe. On my ZX2SR if I went from stock camber to 2.5/3 negative or back, it took about 3 turns on each tie rod to re align the toe.
^^ this for sure,if you can't readjust toe after changing ride height or camber I would just run what you have now.
iceracer wrote: Anytime you change camber, you must adjust toe. On my ZX2SR if I went from stock camber to 2.5/3 negative or back, it took about 3 turns on each tie rod to re align the toe.
would that be for strut cars ? on my double wishbone front end I can change camber without any movement in toe
Most cars, actually. Strut vs control arms doesn't matter. The lateral movement of the tire with the change in camber changes the distance between the steering arms, and thus toe. It would be possible to design the geometry so that this didn't happen - put the steering arm in line with the pivot point of that camber change - but that would probably involve a very high steering arm and there's not really any point.
Yeah, Camber does wear tires. If you don't believe me come to our paddock in Lincoln, I'll show you what 8k miles at -3-ish does to some All seasons.
If you can do it easily, do it. You won't regret it.
Also, havin the car on the rack, the Megan camber plates are slotted so when you adjust camber, it moves the strut in the correct diretion to counter the tow in/out issue. The problem is you lose caster as you go in, but the change from -1 to -3 was less than .6* caster change. So now I just pop them puppies out after an event, and slam them in for the event.
Huh ? Moving the top of the strut will change toe, a little less than camber bolts. How does changing camber change caster ? You would have to move the strut fore and aft to change caster.
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