225/45/15 vs 245/40/15 autocross tires - input needed

OK, after 2 seasons and multiple drivers, my used JBT-special 225/45/15 Hoosier A7s are done for.  They were relatively cheap, but they were not as insanely grippy as I hoped (they were used Runoffs qualifiers), and they're corded.

Before I call Mr. Bergin again, I thought I'd consider my other options.

I have 15x9 +38 (or so) wheels.  The 225/45/15 Hohos fit without rubbing except at heavy lock angles under load.  In something that runs a little narrower, I'd like to consider stepping up to 245/40/15.

What's good in that size?  These are autocross-only tires, and since I'm in SM, they don't need to be 200TW...  but they do need to be under about $180/tire.  Less would be better.  I would be willing to bet the modern 200 compounds are stickier new than my used and slightly aged A7s were, so I'm not against running an ST-legal tire.  Thanks.

Following with interest due to my supercharger purchase. I was looking at the 235/50R15 Toyo R888Rs

NickD said:

Following with interest due to my supercharger purchase. I was looking at the 235/50R15 Toyo R888Rs

Far too tall unless you want to run 4x4 ride heights and rub.

z31maniac said:

NickD said:

Following with interest due to my supercharger purchase. I was looking at the 235/50R15 Toyo R888Rs

Far too tall unless you want to run 4x4 ride heights and rub.

Ewww, yeah, just did the match, no bueno.

Illbe running the 245 width Rival S on my SM ae86. Figure they will have the grip I need to be fast but wont wear like hohos.

In teh 245 15 size you have the Hankook RS4, the Maxxis something or other, and the Rival S.

The RS4 is great for endurance racing, but may not be the best all out autocross tire.  The Maxxis is not as good as either as far as I am concerned (however, I think they won nationals on a few cars this year).  THe Rival S is probably the best autocross tire in that size, but will wear more than the other 2.

The 225 15 size has all the same players, but also includes the RE71.  This tire is probably faster than all of the others even with the decrease in width.  It is also the highest wearing tire.

While I'm not a huge fan of the Rival S 1.5's wear and wet grip, I think they are a stupid fast combo in 245/40/15 on a 9 inch wheel. Worth noting they will be way slower than new A7's, but you probably won't notice that since you're used to heat-cycled out worn A7's. 

In reply to wvumtnbkr :

The Maxxis have another strike against them in that they are a pain to get a hold of. Also, RE71Rs are not available in a 225/45R15.

NickD said:

In reply to wvumtnbkr :

The Maxxis have another strike against them in that they are a pain to get a hold of. Also, RE71Rs are not available in a 225/45R15.

Huh, I could have sworn I saw them on a couple of Chumpcars.  I wouldnt try those then (ya, know, if they dont exist...)

I keep coming back to the 225/45/15 Hankook Ventus Z214 in the soft C71 compound (40TW).  They're about $175, but this tire has been around for a number of years, and I never really hear much about it.  Which is, I guess, fairly telling in itself.  I can get Proxes RRs in the same size for about $182...

...which is the same price as the 245/40/15 Rival S 1.5 (200TW), and the Maxxis Victra RC-1 (100TW)

I don't seem to see the RE71 in 225/45.  I only find it in 205/50.  I want/need more width than that.

Thanks for everybody's input.  I agonize over this stuff.

NickD said:

The Maxxis have another strike against them in that they are a pain to get a hold of.

You can order them straight from Maxxis with free shipping.  $179.20 each, in stock, for the RC-1 DOT R-comp in 245/40/15.

There are a couple autocrossers locally that use the Z214 and they're usually fairly fast in the SSM category with their miata. (we are not an extremely fast region) 

The maxxis RC1 is really more of a HPDE tire, you'll struggle to get heat into them for autocross.

I'm not sure if new Hankooks will be faster than used A7's (I suspect not if the A7's were stored indoors in dark bags and not frozen during their lifespan) but for similar price you can certainly get more events out of a set of the hankooks than a partially used set of Hoosiers.

Just fitted the 245/15/40 RS4 on my teg. Can't wait for the season to get started to see how they hold up!

I ran the Hankook Z214 for a season. They weren't as good as the A7 new, but they are still much grippier than most street tires.

klodkrawler05 said:

There are a couple autocrossers locally that use the Z214 and they're usually fairly fast in the SSM category with their miata. (we are not an extremely fast region) 

The maxxis RC1 is really more of a HPDE tire, you'll struggle to get heat into them for autocross.

I'm not sure if new Hankooks will be faster than used A7's (I suspect not if the A7's were stored indoors in dark bags and not frozen during their lifespan) but for similar price you can certainly get more events out of a set of the hankooks than a partially used set of Hoosiers.

I had no trouble with heating up 15x9 225/45/15 RC-1's on my NA but we had longer courses with BMW CCA of around 60-70 seconds they were great tires and wear better than some other options BUT the new rival S is actually way faster

Useful review on Z214 on tire rack

"

Initial Review:

October 20, 2017

As others have said, MAKE SURE YOU GET THE RIGHT COMPOUND!!! There's a big difference. If you would use a R6/R7 Hoosier, use the 51 compound. If you would use an A6/A7 Hoosier, use the 71 or 91 compound. The 51 compound probably won't warm up enough to start to stick for autocross, and the 91 compound will probably overheat and fall apart on the track. My car is 2400 lbs with driver and the 71 compound in a 225 width works well for autocross. Better on hot days than cool days. YMMV, of course.
These stick well when they're in the right temperature range, and seem pretty forgiving for a slick tire. They wear well, and as others have said, they seem to run out of heat cycles before they run out of rubber. They're sensitive to temperature, so it pays to keep that in mind. I let them spin and slide a little at first to get them to warm up, then once they're warm, don't let them slide so they don't overheat. Once they're overheated, they'll get slippery again. They're still progressive at the limit, the limit is just much lower."

Thanks for the info on the Z214s.  I didn't realize there was also a C91 compound.  That's probably what I would want, since it's a Miata, and our courses tend to be shorter.

So, the various affordable options are all about $700 / set new, and make them last 2 seasons (about 100-120 passes).

Or, call John Bergin and get used A7s for about half that, every year.

NickD said:

In reply to wvumtnbkr :

The Maxxis have another strike against them in that they are a pain to get a hold of. Also, RE71Rs are not available in a 225/45R15.

But if they were all of the Miata world would get faster overnight haha

Duke said:

Thanks for the info on the Z214s.  I didn't realize there was also a C91 compound.  That's probably what I would want, since it's a Miata, and our courses tend to be shorter.

So, the various affordable options are all about $700 / set new, and make them last 2 seasons (about 100-120 passes).

Or, call John Bergin and get used A7s for about half that, every year.

If you are co-driving the car you can even get away with R-7s from JBT which will never wear out and still be respectably fast locally.  I bought a set of 275/35/15 from hin a couple years ago and ran them for a full season plus a National Tour on concrete, sold them to a poorer autocrosser who put them on his Mark 1 Supra and was still managing top 10 finishes in our fairly fast region at the end of his season on them (somewhere around 300 runs by then) and they still hadn't corded.

275s fit a 9" wheel ok, not ideal but not terrible either.