240/260/280z vs. BMW 2002 vs. Miata, shopping for weekend car

I'm a long time GRM subscriber and lurker on the board. The time has finally come for me to get serious about purchasing a good weekend/auto-x/HPDE car. I've been shopping for a couple years and I have narrowed my favorites down to a Datsun Z, a BMW 2002 or a Miata NA. I've driven all three, and like each one...They each offer a different driving experience and all have something great to offer. Below is a quick list of pros and cons for each car. Does anyone with ownership experience have suggestions they can offer?

240/260/280z

Pros: sportiest of the bunch, sexiest styling of the bunch, the sweet sound of that inline 6, pretty good after market for parts, lots or parts cars available, pretty good ownership community,

Cons: RUST, 40 year old systems likely have been abused

BMW 2002

Pros: Classic german styling, Most unique car of the bunch, top notch build quality, fuel efficiency, back seat and good trunk for weekend touring with my wife,

Cons: limited aftermarket, limited parts cars available, rust,(though not as bad as the datsun), 40 year old systems likely have been abused

Miata (NA)

Pros: tons of cars to choose from, insane aftermarket, modern conveniences, no major rust issues, cheapest to buy and maintain

Cons: least unique of the bunch, Girly styling requires some massaging in my opinion, good community but I question how much I have in common with a lot of miata drivers

So there are my thoughts in a nutshell. My guess is I'll be happy any of the cars. I'm just waiting for the right deal to come around. However, any recomendations would be appreciated. Thanks GRM'rs!

What part of the country are you in?

I think that will have a big bearing on the first two choice, and likely land you with the 3rd as the cheapest, most reliable, and most upgradeable of the 3.

Keep in mind, I opted for an AW11 MR2 over a Miata, and I currently have a 280ZX in my garage next to said MR2. Up here in CT, there is no such thing as a rust free Datsun, and I'm not sure the 2002 will be much more solid.

In reply to Brotus7: I'm in Portland Oregon, and we have relatively fewer rust issues than the Midwest, Northeast or coastal areas. For the right car, I'd be looking in the Portland area, Seattle area, Eastern Washington and Oregon, Boise ID, and Sacramento/SF Bay areas.

The Miata is the obvious plug and play option. One thing I've noticed is that Miata's seem to be more expensive around here than other area's of the country. A decent 1.8 NA with 120K miles will sell for $5000 around here. I hear stories of miatas selling for $3000 or less in other areas.

I grew up around streetrods, and despite the extra work there is just something very cool about the older cars...and who doesn't love a good set of side draft mikuni's!

There is a decent aftermarket for 2002's.

T.J. wrote: There is a decent aftermarket for 2002's.

Yeah, there is definitely an aftermarket out there for the '02's especially for a car its age. Just maybe not quite as strong as the other two? I've driven Saab's all my life, so any of these three car's will have a larger aftermarket than I've become used to. Its all relative I guess.

I would say it is more than decent. If you are willing to swap the engine and trans from other models.. the sky is the limit on an 02

You're comparing two great classic sedans against a modern two seater. I like the Miata even if it is a girl's car. :-) but for me the 2002 or 510 would be my choice in that order.

How much time do you want to spend working on the car versus driving the car? It's a serious question, you're comparing old cars to not-quite-so-old. Build quality of a 1970's car isn't really an issue anymore, as age/use/corrosion have made any component a liability. This is coming from someone who has multiple old cars.

The 2002 is cool, but for the amount of money/effort you'd put into one you would have one hell of a fast Miata. I suspect the same might be true of a Z car, although around here they seem to be a bit more solid than the 2002s.

There are a wide range of Miata drivers. You might not be like every single one of them, but you can bet that there are a bunch of people who asked the same question you did and ended up with one. Heck, I'm not like a lot of Miata drivers. Don't let the other owners affect you, unless they're going to be in the car with you as you drive around. And don't be so shallow as to fall for the "chick car" thing. This is a motorsports forum, not a posing forum

If you were asking about vintage British or Italian convertibles, I'd tell you to buy the Miata. It's just so much easier to have fun with a low cost with one.

In my admittedly limited experience with Datsun Z's (around here the survivors of the rust plague are about a handful) they are the least good "out of the box" from a driving perspective. It's one of those cars that, in stock form, isn't as great as you'd hoped, but it can be made decent with a cash infusion unless you find one already done.

Having owned a 2002 and worked on a few, I'm most familiar with those. There's hardly anything you can't buy for one (OEM, repro or performance). They are a little underwhelming bone stock but respond easily to the usual bolt-on bits. The stock engine is okay but a little lacking by modern standards. It's a good 3 box design that gains practicality points where the styling isn't swoopy. I like 'em, but I'd buy the best one my money could buy vs a project. They are easy to work on with few parts that you will curse about access (important if you've ever worked on Italian cars).

The best answer probably is Miata, but it's small size and lack of uniqueness could be detriments. It's going to come down to how much garage work you want in between the fun driving times.

If NAs aren't depreciating, how do the NBs look on price?

I think the styling is chick-car also, but the silver NB with black 15x10s(?) and a rollbar I saw on Saturday was badass and had me thinking "do want!"

P.S. Listen to Keith.

ddavidv wrote: Having owned a 2002 and worked on a few, I'm most familiar with those. There's hardly anything you can't buy for one (OEM, repro or performance).

True.. BMW completely supports their older vintage cars.

NA and NB Miatas seem to be pretty close to the point where condition and mileage are more important than model year. The exception is the Mazdaspeed, which still commands a premium. This is based on my perception of the market, I don't actually shop for Miatas very often But I have seen locally that they've all settled at pretty close to the same level. And the NC is starting to show up under $10k now.

Like everyone else here has said, it greatly depends on your end use. I've owned all 3 at some point in my life, and in some instances, many versions (Miata, 240Z), and of course I have opinions.

First, there's not a bad car on the list. All three have good and bad points. The Datsun and BMW; rust rust and more rust. If you don't like dealing with rust, stay away from both, as they rust equally as bad. And, they both will rust at some point if they haven't already turned into a pile of oxide.

Of the 3, I prefer the 240Z for a simple vintage sports car. It simply is the most fun. It's also the most fun on track, but it is a workout as the steering loads up pretty badly. The Datsun also works remarkably well for weekend travel, as it will hold an amazing amount of luggage.

The BMW is also a joy, you just have to like the "upright" driving experience. In many ways, it feels the most modern, even compared to the Miata. I can also be made to corner very well, and has a nice solid feel. If you buy the right one. My experience was that they can rust badly in places you don't see, just like the Datsun. Their build process appeared to be more complicated, and in my case, was far more difficult to repair than the 240 in terms of rust.

The Miata is THE choice if you want a fun, cheap autocross or track car. There really isn't a better choice. It's maybe a tick or so down in the fun level compared to the 240, at least in my opinion, but higher than the 2002. But they are all, very very close. It will also be the easiest to keep.

I was thinking about these this morning during my ownership time of each, and came to a few worthless conclusions.

240Z: Great as a track and autocross car, can blend with both sports cars and muscle cars (they accept 240's for some odd reason) at car shows, and they still stop people in their tracks both old and young.

2002: Revered at european or BMW car shows, great track and autocross cars, the average person thinks they are old Toyotas.

Miata: Zero respect outside the cones. Within the cones (or rumble strips); the holy grail of the 99%. Easily the best autocross car ever produced. Just don't expect an upside in street cred for years to come. One of the best ever though.

Your first post sums up the situation fairly well, but considering where you live, is rust on a 40 year old car a huge concern?

The Z car is going to be more plentiful than an '02, and I would think, cheaper to buy and run.

Having owned 2 British sports cars (one nearly new, and the other being bought when it was 10 years old), there is nothing like being able to lower the top at will. NO sunroof, NO "T-Top" comes close. It's a shame that Datsun/Nissan replaced it's roadsters with a car that had no convertible model for the first 20 years of it's existance. They really missed a bet (maybe a very small one?) by not offering the 240/260/280 Zs as a 'vert.

For me? A toss-up between Miata and "Z" car. But I'd throw a 320 into the mix if I were you.

At least being on that side of the country, you can find survivors. You didn't mention price which can be the factor. Cheapest to do what you want is the miata, then maybe the Z. Prices seem to be jumping for 2002s or I'm looking in the wrong places. That being said, I'm borderline bmw fanbois - so I'd lean that way or even e21 (since they're cheap you can pick a nice one for little - they rust too).

Here's another thought - pretty sure all these have some coverage between GRM and CMS (Per just built a 2002). You might get some extra perspective.

Bump,

Wanted to let GRM world know that I took a hard left turn and bought a 1988 Saab 900 SPG. Not quite what I was originally looking at initially, but the car popped up and the price was right. The car is very solid, no rust. The drive train is all smooth and strong, the turbo pulls hard and tranny still shifts smooth. There are definitely some projects to be taken care of, but its a great car. I'm excited to get to work on it and keep the forums updated. Happy motoring!