When I did one of my first track days, I chatted with a gentleman who towed his new Ferrari to the track. It was like an early Challenge car, and this is back when the series was new. I drove there in my Rabbit GTI. For both of us, the financial commitments were similar.
The BRZ race car did intrigue me. And while $30k isn't cheap for most of us, for a shop-built car, I think it compares favorably against a Spec Miata: similar lap times but, as our car owner explained, much less prep work.
Can you race for less? Absolutely. But for a relatively new, quite reliable car, the BRZ is very intriguing.
AaronT
New Reader
9/9/20 9:14 a.m.
In reply to Tom1200 :
I think a lot of people don't consider or are intimidated by the idea of a single seater since it's not something you see every day.
I think karts make a lot of sense for us budget racers/drivers from a cost perspective as well.
Do they have kart classes for grown-ups? I'd love to do wheel-to-wheel at some point, but unless I share expenses with a lemons team, I doubt I'll ever be able to afford it, and at 57YO I don't relish playing bumper car with a bunch of teenagers at the kart track.
In reply to Kreb (Forum Supporter) :
Briggs 206 appears to be the popular budget series at the moment if you want to own and maintain your own Kart.
You might also look into league racing at the Closest K1 or Pole Position karting facility near you. The Rental places often have arrive and drive racing leagues for adults.
AaronT
New Reader
9/9/20 9:42 a.m.
In reply to Kreb (Forum Supporter) :
Yup, there are senior and senior heavy classes specifically aimed at the older guys. Lo206 is a spec 4-stroke Briggs motor that requires minimal maintenance and has big fields at a lot of track.
Edit: The arrive and drive rental leagues are fun but aren't the same as proper karts. They weigh a lot more due to bumpers, they are often inconsistent from kart-to-kart, and take a lot of abuse so handling can be janky. Also, the indoor tracks can be a lot tighter than a purpose built outdoor track.
Two things worth mentioning that bubbled up in some replies...
New tow vehicle purchase prices are high-ish, sure. But keep in mind that a brand new domestic truck or SUV will never be sold for MSRP. Trucks in particular will be sold for up to $12k off MSRP pretty easily, if not more. I highly doubt most people are putting $25k down on a $55k out-the-door vehicle but payment terms have indeed never been longer. At least interest rates aren't the 10%+ they were when my parents were car shopping pre-me.
It is also entirely possible to have "$35k in the racecar build" but have done it over a period of time. I've got about that much in my E36 M3, but I bought the car when I was making sub-$50k in the DC metro area (aka peanuts). I built it in a series of apartment and townhome garages and have only recently been able to afford to use a friend's shop for work. I financed my fancy-but-old enclosed trailer for a year or so.
It all works on whatever budget, so long as you don't try to grow too big too quickly with the whole thing. I drove the M3 to the track for a few years before buying a $10k Yukon and $2k open trailer. I financed the Yukon.
I've also been single until recently and chose to go racing instead of putting away a proper amount in cash savings, or maxing out my retirement accounts, or whatever - again, until the last few years. Totally worth it, I wouldn't change a thing about the last seven years, but you have to be a special kind of nutjob to think so.
Photo: seven years ago, immediately after purchasing the $5,000 M3 that would become my racecar. "Only rich people can go racing, I'll keep it mostly stock and do some Time Trial in it at most" was my mantra. Am still not rich but earned my W2W license in 2017 and the car looks/drives very differently now.
I just ran a LuckyDog endurance Event at Mosport last weekend.
The hauler and pit setup for the winning car on sunday was probably in the 300k range.
Not going to guess the investment into the civic.
And that my friend is bonkers.
David the article was on the mark, that's why I said I live in a different universe. I believed the dollars to be realistic and I too feel the FRS/BRZ is a good alternative
The whole goal of the Datsun was simply to get out on track as cheaply as possible; I was on track for the 2020 equivalent of $3600, we knew the car would not be competitive but we've had lots of fun. You can find a good reliable track car for $5000, be it an old ITC car or vintage vee.
If you're trying to do it bare bones the key is run a lightweight low power car on used tires. Done this way I can do a local race for weekend $650 (this includes all of the amortized maintenance costs) an out of town event 250-300 miles away will run $950. If I camped and towed with the Outback I could get it down to $750 for the weekend.
I live in the dollar menu universe of racing cars.
In reply to Tom1200 :
I club raced an SV650 for a couple of years and I'm pretty sure I only ever paid for tires and race fees and maybe a couple sets of brake pads. I got back what I had into the bike when I was finished. I was racing for ~$3k a season that was CHEAP. I really have no interest in racing dirt bikes now, just play riding but I bet I could do that for under $1000 a season if I wanted. Entry fees are like $50-100!
Kreb (Forum Supporter) said:
Do they have kart classes for grown-ups? I'd love to do wheel-to-wheel at some point, but unless I share expenses with a lemons team, I doubt I'll ever be able to afford it, and at 57YO I don't relish playing bumper car with a bunch of teenagers at the kart track.
They definitely do! You'll want to check out your local tracks and see what classes are popular, but across the US the LO206 is an extremely popular class. It's a spec sealed-engine series with low cost consumables. Typically the engines can do seasons without rebuild (and most are just replaced, they are factory sealed and ~$800 for a full engine package), run on pump gas and run harder tires that could be ran for multiple weekends. This is in comparison to the faster 2 stroke classes which require annual to bi-annual engine services, 1+ sets of tires each race weekend and run on more expensive race blends.
As far as age groups - they typically some splits, my local have a 15+ class and a 32+ yr old. Both are running same karts, but the 32+ yr old class allows for higher weight (min 350# w/ kart vs. 380#). Keep in mind all karts/drivers are weight after race and most are carrying race ballast, so that also helps equalize the field. Race weekends should be slightly more respectful drivers than rental as well, especially at the club level.
It's a great grassroots place to race, and can be the end-all-be-all for some if they want to compete on a national level. There's always the option to get your feet wet and then move up to faster classes as well. Most of the big guys seem to run both classes at the events they attend. I suggest starting with the local rental leagues and see how much you like it. Be careful though, you might get hooked!
You can also race these on Daytona & Indy Road Course (both host kart races), and there's plenty of special karting events. There's even a few annual street course events hosted throughout the USA (Lancaster, CA & another one that's slipping my mind).
Definitely worth checking out! You can be practicing for less than $100 a day and drive until you're exhausted.. race weekends can be a couple hundred or less depending on if you need tires and break anything.
The first event is always the most expensive when it comes to racing, all the getting to that stage is tough and costly. Its even more expensive if you crash out day 1 of race 1...
In reply to Kreb (Forum Supporter) :
Yes. In terms of W2W racing, Nothing in the racing world compares to the value of LO206 Sprint racing. Even racing one as a Autox kart, you'll be faster than half the field at a local event.
Snowdoggie said:
Then there is crapcar racing. $500 for the car. Add another $1,000 for roll cage and safety equipment. And so on...
By the time that $500 car completes a lap it's pretty darn hard not to have $5500 in it. Rollcage fuel cell seat belts kill switch, fire extinguisher tires brakes, repairs of the broken stuff, worn out stuff, radios, gas cans, electronic timer, cool suit cooler. Helmet, driving suit Hans Device, driving gloves driving shoes, arm restraints, safety net and Im probably missing a few plus entry fee for 4 drivers.
You can at least double that if you want a chance to finish the race and double it again if you want a modicum of normalcy. You know a place to sleep get a shower eat and go to the bathroom plus a trailer with tools and some spare parts.
Yes you can heat beans over a campfire of wood you found along side the road. Sleeping bag on the ground and old tarp in case it rains.scrounge junkyards for used tires and recycle batteries. Clever work with ink and a sympathetic tech inspector might save you some money on seatbelts and tech stickers.
You don't mind spending all that money to be an embarrassment . It's not about winning rather putting on a good show , right?
How many times can you be the first one out of the race or not even actually make the race because your car blew up, Again?
But going wheel to wheel racing is thousands of dollars a weekend anyway you cut it.
frenchyd said:
Snowdoggie said:
Then there is crapcar racing. $500 for the car. Add another $1,000 for roll cage and safety equipment. And so on...
By the time that $500 car completes a lap it's pretty darn hard not to have $5500 in it. Rollcage fuel cell seat belts kill switch, fire extinguisher tires brakes, repairs of the broken stuff, worn out stuff, radios, gas cans, electronic timer, cool suit cooler. Helmet, driving suit Hans Device, driving gloves driving shoes, arm restraints, safety net and Im probably missing a few plus entry fee for 4 drivers.
You can at least double that if you want a chance to finish the race and double it again if you want a modicum of normalcy. You know a place to sleep get a shower eat and go to the bathroom plus a trailer with tools and some spare parts.
Meh. My motorhome only cost me $3,000, and it has a bed, a good stereo system and a flatscreen.
I never realized how expensive a proper track car was. Coming from the land of bracket racing at the drag strip you can enjoy yourself for about any budget and a Saturday at the track only cost me about 100 bucks including fuel.
My son had a LO206 kart in which he was able to post very respectable lap times with during open lapping sessions, but he was too intimidated by the intensity of W2W racing to participate. Shame he sold the kart.
In reply to Snowdoggie :
Those good/great deals we stumble upon help us forget the many times we failed or stumbled
Snowdoggie said:
frenchyd said:
Snowdoggie said:
Then there is crapcar racing. $500 for the car. Add another $1,000 for roll cage and safety equipment. And so on...
By the time that $500 car completes a lap it's pretty darn hard not to have $5500 in it. Rollcage fuel cell seat belts kill switch, fire extinguisher tires brakes, repairs of the broken stuff, worn out stuff, radios, gas cans, electronic timer, cool suit cooler. Helmet, driving suit Hans Device, driving gloves driving shoes, arm restraints, safety net and Im probably missing a few plus entry fee for 4 drivers.
You can at least double that if you want a chance to finish the race and double it again if you want a modicum of normalcy. You know a place to sleep get a shower eat and go to the bathroom plus a trailer with tools and some spare parts.
Meh. My motorhome only cost me $3,000, and it has a bed, a good stereo system and a flatscreen.
It's not so mich what a motorhome costs it's what it takes to make it reliable enough to haul your car, tools spares and guys to the track.
If you've got money and time invested in a car plus non refundable entry fees and it breaks down half way there ( or coming back ) resulting in everything going to waste. ( or jobs at jeopardy )
Well?
It's all a matter of perspective. My tire bill for the upcoming SCCA Runoffs will be close to $3,000.00. But if you want to run at the top levels, you have to spend the bucks.I might add that I'm not even close to what some of my competittors will spend!
In reply to Don49 (Forum Supporter) :
Interesting. I'm hoping to go this year. I've enjoyed watching racing and due to my income my priorities have been on other areas. I never would've guessed this much is spent on one weekend.
I hope you do well.
I'll be in the Mazda Paddock in the Lester Building on the left end as you face it. Stop by and say hello. My car is a 2nd gen RX7 #47 white. That invitation is open to any other GRM'ers in attendance.
I have done the math a couple of times on a bare bones RunOffs budget; being on the west coast means 3500-4000 mile round trip, so that adds an extra bit.
If I stayed in the camper van (no hotels), skipped the test days and was the sole member of my crew it came out to $3700-$4000 dependent on where the location was.
If I did a couple of test days I was at $5000
If I brought someone along then it was pushing $6000.
If I brought an extra set of tires with the intent of running fresh scrubbed tires for the race then we're talking $6800-$7000 dependent on which car I took.
That potential 7K was on top of $3500-$4000 just to qualify for the Runoffs. So were talking $11,000 for a season and I would have no chance of winning at that level of funding.
In reply to Tom1200 :
I mean, yeah man. That E36 M3s expensive. No doubt. And there is a LOT of people that would look at a $3000 racecar and be super jealous because they can't afford that for a toy, or think you're crazy for spending that much just so you can pay somebody to let you drive around. Such is life. Be thankful for what you have.
Tom1200 said:
I have done the math a couple of times on a bare bones RunOffs budget; being on the west coast means 3500-4000 mile round trip, so that adds an extra bit.
If I stayed in the camper van (no hotels), skipped the test days and was the sole member of my crew it came out to $3700-$4000 dependent on where the location was.
If I did a couple of test days I was at $5000
If I brought someone along then it was pushing $6000.
If I brought an extra set of tires with the intent of running fresh scrubbed tires for the race then we're talking $6800-$7000 dependent on which car I took.
That potential 7K was on top of $3500-$4000 just to qualify for the Runoffs. So were talking $11,000 for a season and I would have no chance of winning at that level of funding.
The only reason I was able to race at the level I did was in addition to my regular job I had a side business where I'd restore vintage race cars. Most guys wanted a mechanic at the track so in exchange for them picking up the costs I'd prep them and their car and bring mine along as part of the deal.
The hardest part was one guy had me drive the car I restored for him. It was really fast and I'd win the class every race. But it was the same class as my Black Jack. So for over a year I made a good side income, raced a lot, and won everything I entered.
@gearheadmb do not mistake my posts; I'm totally grateful that I get to play with cars at any level as my parents could never have afforded to be so "frivolous" as spending 3K a year on a hobby. Perhaps I'm misreading the tone of your post but to be clear I posted my bare bones RunOffs cost as a simple juxtaposition Don49s post. There is no wrong answer when it comes to competitive motorsports, spend what you need to be competitive or do it on the cheap knowing that, while you'll have fun, you won't be running up front. I've done both ends of the spectrum and I won't criticize folks who spend big bucks trying to win a championship.
The picture below is my universe. The Italian writing on the side of the Datsun it says "faster than a set of bleachers". Loads of people want to go racing but think they can't afford it and that slogan is my in to share what I know with people.
