370Z question in regard to autocross.

I am looking for a newish car, I plan on doing street class autocross with the new car. I typically hate on the 370Z due to it's various faults, particularly with cooling and brake fade. So I have a simple question.

Considering these cars overheat and have brake cooling issues. An oil cooler is not allowed in this class and the brake upgrades are simply pads, lines, and fluid only allowed. Can you replace the front bumper on the car in this class?

13.2 BODYWORK said: Accessories, gauges, indicators, lights and other appearance, comfort and convenience modifications which have no effect on performance and/ or handling and do not materially reduce the weight of the car are permitted. This does not allow driver’s seat substitutions, or the removal of “tow hooks” or “tie-down loops”. Delayed shutdown devices such as the “Turbo Timer,” which perform no function while the car is in motion, are permitted. This does permit the installation of an additional mirror (e.g., Wink®), but does not allow the removal of the original mirror

"appearance, comfort and convenience modifications which have no effect on performance"

Does this apply to a bumper on the car? Is this considered "performance"?

This bumper for example allows for considerably more airflow. Of course if this is allowed before buying the car I would do more research into if this helps before dropping a dime on it.

Pretty sure the answer is no on the bumper, but you'll have to double-check that with someone more up on the latest rule changes.

Also pretty sure you won't have much brake fade or overheating issues at an autocross; your time at speed is much too short. None of my cars have ever had an issue with either, even with OEM pads.

jstein77 wrote: Pretty sure the answer is no on the bumper, but you'll have to double-check that with someone more up on the latest rule changes. Also pretty sure you won't have much brake fade or overheating issues at an autocross; your time at speed is much too short. None of my cars have ever had an issue with either, even with OEM pads.

The 370z is supposed to be particularly horrible in this regard though. Like Car and Driver wrecked one in 2010 due to brake failure then did a brake test where they get up to speed and brake 20-30 times and the brakes were useless by attempt 7. They installed aftermarket pads and fluids and it still was worse than a stock 335i.

Keep in mind there there is a lot of high revving at lower speeds in autocross. My project car overheated there despite being fine otherwise. IDK if it has to do with my living in the desert.

The Bumper is a no in street class.

That being said, the 370Z was a real contender in BS until they bumped it to AS. Lots of people ran it competitively.

kanaric wrote: "appearance, comfort and convenience modifications which have no effect on performance" Does this apply to a bumper on the car? Is this considered "performance"? This bumper for example allows for considerably more airflow.

I think you already answered your own question.

I think the spirit of the rules is a little berkeleyed up if the spirit of the rules doesn't allow a mod that lets you complete an event in the first place.

Just out of wild curiosity, how much would it cost to upgrade a 350 or 370 to be a reliable track day car/autocross car? Would seem to me that with the cost of the initial car and upgrades, one could start with a more appropriate and less involved car in the first place...

This is autocross - you will not have any of those issues.

Your issue will be running a 370Z in B-Street, where you will get annihilated by Corvettes and S2000s.

It's a bit frustrating. Nissan dropped a sports car with nice aluminum double wishbones, big fenders, and a nice V6... But left enough niggling issues, POS interior, rear tower brace that kills trunk storage, and kinda porky with high front weight bias. So close but so far. It's not great as a street car or for motorsports.

Claff wrote:

kanaric wrote: "appearance, comfort and convenience modifications which have no effect on performance" Does this apply to a bumper on the car? Is this considered "performance"? This bumper for example allows for considerably more airflow.

I think you already answered your own question.

This

Mister Fister wrote: This is autocross - you will not have any of those issues. Your issue will be running a 370Z in B-Street, where you will get annihilated by Corvettes and S2000s.

And this.

A previous commentator says it's competitive in there though.

That being said, the 370Z was a real contender in BS until they bumped it to AS. Lots of people ran it competitively.

When I looked at it yesterday it was only the Nismo in AS. The non-nismo looked to still be in BS. I'm curious how well the Nismo does.

rear tower brace that kills trunk storage

I thought this was in the 350z not the 370z. I had a 350 back in the day and yes that was annoying.

the cost of the initial car and upgrades, one could start with a more appropriate and less involved car in the first place...

A used 350Z or 370Z is rather inexpensive for what it is IMO. New they are not worth the price but nobody really sells something similar to it. I refuse to compare it to a Mustang. I have had a Mustang GT and a 350Z and they are a completely different car to drive.

I saw a 2013 Nismo for $24k for sale in SOCAL.

To bring it up to par to other cars, according to what i've read, STOCK (ie. a just a 335i) you need an oil cooler, brake ducts, pads and fluid upgrade. That brings it up to cars sold as new. Otherwise, according to tests and reviews, you will have sudden brake failure, limp mode, and/or power reduction by the ECU for the safety of the car.

I was hoping a bumper would be a minor enough upgrade to be allowed and maybe the extra flow would help solve all these issues.

This is autocross - you will not have any of those issues.

After perusing the 370Z forums, specifically the motorsports section and autocross discussions, I have been convinced otherwise. I have had cars that had these issues at autocross and so have friends of mine.

Especially keep in mind that when I autocross in the summer it's >110 degrees and to live I need to have accessories like AC on.

I think you already answered your own question.

Is solving serious issues with the cars reliability a "performance enhancement"? I mean I guess it is for a athlete or in bed lol. It gives really no advantage other than making the car function in a way that it's competition like a RX8 does stock already.

I disagree with many of the comments here. I never had one issue of brake fade or overheating with mine. It was an awesome street car, light years better than my current BRZ. Now as to autocross, it was an overdog for C Street, but not so much for B Street, although locally you never know.

I'd buy another in a heartbeat. Its not without issues, but try to find a car that doesn't have any. My biggest grips were thin paint, tire wear, and a failure of the body control module, which fortunately was covered under warranty.

failure of the body control module

Wth is that? lol I never heard of such a thing. Stability control?

How would a Nismo be in autocross vs a non-nismo considering the AS class vs BS?

Also keeping in mind saying "shouldn't be a problem in autocross" I should add that if I bought this car I would be going to track days with a friend who has a Cayman. Specifically Laguna Seca sometime soon. So even if you don't believe that this car has these issues at autocross if it is a problem I will encounter it.

Nismo is in fact automatically in BSP due to wheel width.

Duke wrote: Nismo is in fact automatically in BSP due to wheel width.

Even if it's listed in AS?

In AS in the rules book it has:

Nissan

350Z NISMO (2004-2008)

370Z NISMO (2009-16)

Pads, fluid, oil cooler is mandatory on any recent car if you want to be as reliable as possible.

BRZ, ND, etc all run crazy high oil temps on track.

Ah, must have changed for 2016. 2015 it was definitely BSP. My mistake.

Build the car how you want, and then run it in the class it fits in. Possibly Street Touring would allow that bumper? Otherwise you will have to follow the Street rules.

kanaric wrote:

failure of the body control module

Wth is that? lol I never heard of such a thing. Stability control? How would a Nismo be in autocross vs a non-nismo considering the AS class vs BS? Also keeping in mind saying "shouldn't be a problem in autocross" I should add that if I bought this car I would be going to track days with a friend who has a Cayman. Specifically Laguna Seca sometime soon. So even if you don't believe that this car has these issues at autocross if it is a problem I will encounter it.

Bodycontrol modules are the bane of modern cars. They have the potential to turn any electrical system into a Lucas Electronics desgin.

Body Control Modules are a separate computer that keeps track of what is going on in all of the cars non-engine systems and then make and communicate decisions to the engine control as deemed necessary to keep you safe, so for example if you are playing Willie Nelson on the radio the body module will tell the engine control to go into limp-home-in -disgrace mode.

Because of all this tomfoolery, the systems are forced to communicate on a "Can Buss" as in "Can you take the bus home when it all goes off the rails.

Body Control modules when they fail, are priced to exceed the value of the car at the time of failure.

z31maniac wrote: Pads, fluid, oil cooler is mandatory on any recent car if you want to be as reliable as possible. BRZ, ND, etc all run crazy high oil temps on track.

This. Nobody will protest your 'illegal' oil cooler in stock. Prep it to survive the track, run it in stock, you'll be fine.

ProDarwin wrote:

z31maniac wrote: Pads, fluid, oil cooler is mandatory on any recent car if you want to be as reliable as possible. BRZ, ND, etc all run crazy high oil temps on track.

This. Nobody will protest your 'illegal' oil cooler in stock. Prep it to survive the track, run it in stock, you'll be fine.

Vorshlag recently posted a review saying even the "track ready" Focus RS was seeing insanely high oil temps, RDU shuts down with left foot braking, etc.

Sorry, I mistyped when I said AS, yes, only the Nismo is in AS. The 370Z used to be in CS, was deemed an overdog, and moved to BS where it can't keep up with C5's and AP2 S2000's.

z31maniac wrote:

ProDarwin wrote:

z31maniac wrote: Pads, fluid, oil cooler is mandatory on any recent car if you want to be as reliable as possible. BRZ, ND, etc all run crazy high oil temps on track.

This. Nobody will protest your 'illegal' oil cooler in stock. Prep it to survive the track, run it in stock, you'll be fine.

Vorshlag recently posted a review saying even the "track ready" Focus RS was seeing insanely high oil temps, RDU shuts down with left foot braking, etc.

Evo X has oil cooling issues too - oil temps can get into the 300deg. range if it's hot out and you're caning it on the track.

NOHOME wrote:

kanaric wrote:

failure of the body control module

Wth is that? lol I never heard of such a thing. Stability control? How would a Nismo be in autocross vs a non-nismo considering the AS class vs BS? Also keeping in mind saying "shouldn't be a problem in autocross" I should add that if I bought this car I would be going to track days with a friend who has a Cayman. Specifically Laguna Seca sometime soon. So even if you don't believe that this car has these issues at autocross if it is a problem I will encounter it.

Bodycontrol modules are the bane of modern cars. They have the potential to turn any electrical system into a Lucas Electronics desgin. Body Control Modules are a separate computer that keeps track of what is going on in all of the cars non-engine systems and then make and communicate decisions to the engine control as deemed necessary to keep you safe, so for example if you are playing Willie Nelson on the radio the body module will tell the engine control to go into limp-home-in -disgrace mode. Because of all this tomfoolery, the systems are forced to communicate on a "Can Buss" as in "Can you take the bus home when it all goes off the rails. Body Control modules when they fail, are priced to exceed the value of the car at the time of failure.

This. Mine would have been around $1,400 if not under warranty. I think they also put them in places that are impossible to get to without disassembling the entire car first.

When it failed, it basically shut the car off, or more appropriately, refused to let it start. Everything would light up like normal, and you could push the start button, but nothing would happen. A quick tow to the dealer and a few hours later and it was fixed.

NOHOME wrote:

kanaric wrote:

failure of the body control module

Wth is that? lol I never heard of such a thing. Stability control? How would a Nismo be in autocross vs a non-nismo considering the AS class vs BS? Also keeping in mind saying "shouldn't be a problem in autocross" I should add that if I bought this car I would be going to track days with a friend who has a Cayman. Specifically Laguna Seca sometime soon. So even if you don't believe that this car has these issues at autocross if it is a problem I will encounter it.

Bodycontrol modules are the bane of modern cars. They have the potential to turn any electrical system into a Lucas Electronics desgin. Body Control Modules are a separate computer that keeps track of what is going on in all of the cars non-engine systems and then make and communicate decisions to the engine control as deemed necessary to keep you safe, so for example if you are playing Willie Nelson on the radio the body module will tell the engine control to go into limp-home-in -disgrace mode. Because of all this tomfoolery, the systems are forced to communicate on a "Can Buss" as in "Can you take the bus home when it all goes off the rails. Body Control modules when they fail, are priced to exceed the value of the car at the time of failure.

Upvoted for comedy value.