500WHP Spirit....wait what!?

I have been watching some videos on a Aries whooping a Supra and the sweet Caravan's doing 10's and this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omboXDK3ysg&feature=related it really has me rethinking my next purchase, I was looking at the more traditional stuff but I wouldn't mind jumping on the turbo granny car here. Go Hellaflush with the damn thing! I meant the K cars, LeBarons, Sprit's etc. Back in the day when they seemed to turbo everything but their keyboards. These things problematic or really not that bad or just overlooked because of the 87 year old owner going to pick up milk in one image?

Those early turbo Caravans had an awesome setup, it seems. Can't find one here, however.

I don't understand how any car that can be built to 500hp can have such a reputation for being utterly unreliable.

They're not nearly as unreliable as the R/T reputation might lead you to believe. I've had a number of Spirit R/T's (there's still one in my driveway!), an Iroc R/T and have been running a Turbo III motor in my Shadow since '05. Take care of a few well known problems and they're good to go. The bottom ends are unbelievably stout (bone stock longblock went 10.5's @ 135+ mph in the Shadow)

The car in the video belonged to a friend of mine. It's since been sold and now resides in PA, although from what I understand, it's not in the 500 whp state it was in previously.

That's awesome. Just flippin' awesome.

I'm actually glad you commented Pat lol I mean like any car, you take car of it and fix the problems, it will be good to you.....usually. And I have heard also that those are stout bottom ends also. I have heard that since the head was built by Lotus that parts and or rebuilding it your kind of SOL? Now I don't have my own garage and tons of money so I was just wondering, but can these be fast almost like this one and be good daily's? what are some of the fixes needed? and I am in Pa, so that could work out

Very different from the base Acclaim I learned to drive in.

I'll be the first to admit i dont know all that much about the 16v TIII setup (as per spirit r/t and daytona iroc r/t), but i have gleaned a few things from the turbo mopar forums over the years.

The parts are semi-expensive. Not the regular service parts kinda stuff, but if you were to try to piece together a motor to swap into something, you'd have way more in it than if you bought an r/t in the first place.

The heads sometimes crack around the freeze plugs. Much is made of that issue, but some heads never crack, and some that do are easily repaired.

They need timing belts on schedule, or ahead of schedule. People sometimes mess things up with too much timing belt tension.

Sometimes lifters fail and lifters are rare/expensive iirc.

Sometimes the intermediate shaft that drives the oil pump will fail. I dont know much about that problem, but i DO know that its VERY easy to build a $5 failsafe that hooks your oil pressure switch up to a relay. I wish more people would do that instead of bitching.

On the other hand, the 8 valve motors are SUPER cheap, SUPER forgiving, SUPER easy to find parts for and fix, but they flow pretty badly in comparison to the 16v.

Wow thanks! Yeah I guess i'll have to do more thinking, see if I can find a really nice one..or maybe just wait until I already have a car haha The 8V part kind of sounds like VW's haha same thing with them I miss my 85 GTI =[

I has a sad. When you said Spirit, I thought of this:

Oh god yeah, I love them but have and had no luck finding one that was in even good condition

I have had experience with 2 of them, an GLHS omni my dad bought new, and a 85 shelby charger that i had for a few years. They were both fun, but rather poorly made and broken alot. The newer ones (like 89-92, although 92s are very rare) are alot better. The best thing to do if you want one would be to get whatever body style you like, and swap the 89 engine tranny and wiring into it. If you find a TII (intercooled 8v), make sure the engine is in good shape, almost every one i have seen had a rod knock. If I ever got another one it would be a woody wagon one, and I would swap in the 89 shelby Z engine, transmission, suspension, brakes, etc.

My buddy has a 0-mile T-III motor. He offered it to me for free, AND I TURNED HIM DOWN???? He was moving and I think he was just getting stressed and unloading stuff. I thought he'd regret it later. Man I want that motor though.

You turned down a FREE motor? What? What's your name and title?? But then, lots of "free" stuff turn out to be really expensive

Haha, that's funny triumph. Man I wanted it, I mean, a 0 mile t3!!!! But I think he was just getting stressed and not wanting to move a garage full of stuff. So, instead of taking his motor I reminded him that I (and he) have a big truck and I'm going to help him move.
Maybe Karma will come around?

I have both a Spirit R/T and a turbo Caravan.

One day the T3 motor will reside in the grocery getter.

Travis_K wrote: I have had experience with 2 of them, an GLHS omni my dad bought new, and a 85 shelby charger that i had for a few years. They were both fun, but rather poorly made and broken alot. The newer ones (like 89-92, although 92s are very rare) are alot better. The best thing to do if you want one would be to get whatever body style you like, and swap the 89 engine tranny and wiring into it. If you find a TII (intercooled 8v), make sure the engine is in good shape, almost every one i have seen had a rod knock. If I ever got another one it would be a woody wagon one, and I would swap in the 89 shelby charger engine, transmission, suspension, brakes, etc.

Ahh, dump the trans and swap in the A555 from the turbo minivan. A stronger unit.

Well the GLHS blew the trans, but the shelby charger didn't. My opinion is those cars were rushed to production way too fast, and it really took them until the last couple years to get everything to work the way it should. I know there are people here that dont like me saying this, but my shelby charger was really a terrible car. I think completely swapping to the newer engine, trans and wiring would go a long way to improve it though. A555 in an L-body is probably the best choice (since you can keep the rod shifter), Id go with a 523 or 568 in any of the bigger ones though.because the shifter for the A555 is not good at all.

I see no problem with the Spirit's A568.

Same gear ratios and beefy internals as the A555, but the improved shift pattern and syncros of the A523.

That's insane.

I like how you can watch the entire front clip flex as the car comes on boost.

Travis, the L-bodies should not be used for comparisons to the larger K-based cars.

The L-bodies were based on an European design and weren't designed for the abuse hurled at them. They were used for pulling Chrysler out of bankruptcy.

The k-cars were only loosely based on the L-body chassis and were much stronger.

The 525 in the L was only supposed to see 100hp, max. Not 175hp and 175lb/ft (in fact the GLHS limited the boost in lower RPMS to try and save the transaxles). Even with all of the hop-up parts, they would pitch the differential due to the case shifting around. They were economy cars, just like the old cars that became muscle cars in the 60s.

The 520 and the later derivatives (555/523/568/543) were much stronger and with a proper limited slip would survive a good bit more abuse. The 413 auto was based on the 727 and is pretty strong for a 3-speed, aside from the differentials. Again a proper limited slip will reduce the likelihood of spitting the differential pin out of the case.

That's awesome I saw 2 plymouth dusters from that era just a couple minutes apart on the freeway the other day! I remember thinking how cool i thought they were when I was young (and dumb).

ReverendDexter wrote: I don't understand how any car that can be built to 500hp can have such a reputation for being utterly unreliable.

What, like DSM's?

bahaha still got's to give them respect, like said, for turboing EVERYTHING besides the office chairs!

Except for the transmission in the GLHS< almost everything that broken on both of those cars was engine related. IMO they did not develop the engines to an acceptable standard until 89, after that I think they were pretty good. I think with enough work you can make any of them work ok, its just that with the older ones you need to replace everything the factory figured out didnt work over the time they produced them (starter, distributor, wiring harness/computer, etc). They get less crappy with each year, and by 89 everything was pretty well fixed. Im not sure exactly, but I think the a525 in my shelby charger had over 200k on it when i sold it, and it still worked fine. The other problem is alot of the factory parts are discontinued, and the parts store stuff is really really bad (starter solenoids would be a good example of that).