So I feel like I should know this, but what are the known weak point of 90s GMC/Chevy trucks? My roommate is looking at getting a truck and he likes those. He just needs the bed for hauling stuff so the 2wd trucks are what he needs. Is there any good reason to get the v6 over the 350? Any advice here would be good, I have zero first hand experience with them. Budget is 3k or so. Also, if there was a thread about these already and I missed it, let me know and I'll just fade away....
It always seemed like the 350, 305, and 4.3 all got about the same gas mileage. We had an '88 2wd long bed, standard cab truck with the automatic and 305 and it felt no faster or slower than the 350. It did have valve guides and seals that wore faster than they should, so startup would often leave a blue cloud behind. Went through a couple transmissions, the bed rusted over the wheel wells and at the bottom of the cab corners, otherwise it was a pretty solid vehicle for the 185,000 miles we had it.
I'd get a V8 and which ever trans your friend prefers to deal with. There was talk here a long while ago about trying to get a more firm brake pedal in these things but I don't think a solution was ever found, they're just like that, like a big 70's American sedan.
I've had several. Great trucks in 2wd form. Most of mine were 4.3V6 5spd's and all got over 23mpg highway. They were never considered fast, but they did everything you asked. In fact, the last one I had carried our entire deck inthe 6.5' bed home. Carried 800lbs of stone on multiple trips (on lowering springs, coils/leafs) like it was nothing.
I've got an 88 2wd 1/2-ton, 305 auto that's been in the family since new.
It's a good truck, though we did have one trans go out at about 150k, and the rebuilt one in there now doesn't like to shift into OD if it's cold out, so I installed a switch to override it. It's a pretty common prob on the 700r4.
I get a consistent 17mpg with a topper on it, and yeah, the brakes can seem scary if you aren't used to them.
Surprisingly - and even though everone thinks it's impossible - it does great in the snow, even without extra weight & only being 2wd.
If I were shopping for another one, I'd look for the nicest mid-90's 4x4 extended cab Z71 you can find, with the Vortec 350.
^ Stay away from the 4WD IMO. Unless you are planning on 4 wheeling, it's unneccessary AND more money to fix on broken stuff.
They get so heavy with the extended cab though. I don't know if I'd put a price premium on that Vortec 350 since it's got that completely goofy intake setup with a single mega injector and then poppet valves that apparently don't age well. I think I'd rather have a 90 or so and work that over with new Vortec heads and some sort of port injection setup with a 'squirt, or just leave it alone. I'd have another 2WD, standard cab, long bed myself.
cwh
Dork
10/3/09 8:55 a.m.
I had a '90 8' bed, standard cab, 4.3, 5 speed and really likes it. It had been badly abused by the previous owner, but after a good cleaning, a cheapy paint job, and a can of Restore, I had a great truck. That engine apparantly has an appetite for valve seals, though. Traded it for a Toyota PU, and that was a mistake. Hard to believe, huh.
Yeah, valveste seals are terrible, but yif you change them to the felpro umbrella type, they'll never leak again!
IMHO, the 88-96 TBI trucks are pretty poopy. I worked for Rochester/Delphi in those years and I would like to personally apologize for the small block TBI.
They have swirl-port heads, which means there is a large, bulky vane cast into the intake runners. The idea was to induce swirl to improve mileage and reduce emissions. It did neither. All it did was restrict flow. Even the best 350 from those years was about 180-200 hp, and they didn't even really make much torque either. All three of my TBIs delivered about 14 mpg. Add in the valve guide issues and sometimes long cranking starts and they just don't make for a fun or very useful ride. The trucks are great, but the engines wheeze big time.
If you really want to get the best bang for your $3000, go with a 96-99 truck with a 350. Those years were true Vortec engines. The Vortec name was used for a long time (and still is) but the 350s in 96-99 trucks were true Vortecs. Very impressive head flow from a very small 170cc, inspired chamber design requires less fuel, less ignition advance, and makes great torque and power. You can identify them by the plastic intake plenum and the intake bolts (4 per side) are straight up and down, not angled into the head. Vortecs were known for intake manifold leaks. The gasket at the water passage at the rear of the driver's side head tends to leak at around the 125k mark. When it does, just replace it with a good aftermarket gasket and keep driving.
There is also the option of the later trucks (99-up) with the LS1-based engines. I'm not a big fan. They are very reliable, but a bit less torquey and muscle-y. They come in 4.8, 5.3, and 6.0L. The 4.8 is just too small for a heavy truck. The 6.0 drinks gas like I drink beer. The 5.3 is a common engine and was a good middle ground.
TBI is 87-95 and will have a traditional air cleaner on top of a carb-looking TBI injector setup. 96-99 will be Vortec. You'll see a plastic-plenum intake and the intake bolts point straight to the ground, not straight into the head like earlier engines. Do the 350 because the 305 and 4.3 V6 don't have the same heads as the wonderful vortecs on the 350. The 350 hung around in GMCs and the heavier trucks, but starting in 99 they went with the LS-based engine. The dead giveaway is the water pump pulley that looks like a booby and aluminum heads.
i've had a half dozen gmt400's. I've never had any meaningful problem with any of them, and with the exception of one, they were all high mileage tbi trucks. I could barely tell the difference between the 305 & 350, in mileage or power. Drove a V6 5sp shortbox 2wd once. It was okay, but why bother.
My first gmt400 replaced a V6 toyota 4x4. The toyota got worse mileage and had less power. Last one of those I've had.
"No torque"? Compared to what, a 3208 Cat? The 5.7's made 300ftlbs of torque, all down low. The swirl port heads did restric tflow, but promoted low end torque. They didn't really need to rev past 4500, ever. Even if you did, there was nothing there. But you didn't need it as they had all the power you needed for step off.
The newer 5.7 vortecs traded that instant, ow end grunt for more revs and hp. HP is not what makes a great truck. Tq makes a great truck. Add in the terrible injection set up and constant intake problems (6 bolt intake, really?) and the vortecs are a nightmare as they aged.
The newer LS engines are great, but they lack the bottom end power that made the 5.7 popular. But they trade off for more power across a wider rpm range and fantastic fuel economy. The 4.8L engine (295hp, 295tq) is penty big enough. It makes as more power than the OLD 5.7L Vortec and almost equal torque. It hauls our crewcab 2wd GMC around just fine and can tow the 1500lbs trailer hauling the 1700lb car just fine.
The TBI's were great engines. Simple. Solid. Reliable. I would give my eye teeth for another platform that reliable and simple to work on.
I don't know if it's going to be an issue for the OP, since he's in California, but around Southern Ontario a LOT of those trucks rust through at the lower rear corners of the cab. Extended cabs seem to do it worse, but regular cabs do it too.
FWIW, Car Craft did a multi-story piece a couple of years ago on turning an ex-California Highways Department truck into something they could enjoy living with, for cheap.
Keith
SuperDork
10/3/09 12:23 p.m.
Bobzilla wrote:
^ Stay away from the 4WD IMO. Unless you are planning on 4 wheeling, it's unneccessary AND more money to fix on broken stuff.
Around here, you'll have trouble giving a 2WD truck away. Mountains + snow + ranches + lots of dirt = 4WD.
^ Chevy Hi-Performance did as well. Lowering springs, good shocks and some decent tires and they can handle REAL well for a 5000 lb truck.
M030
Reader
10/3/09 1:51 p.m.
Wiper motors die suddenly and at inopportune moments. Like in torrential down pours when you're towing a car. Ask me how I know.
Growing up my Dad was a white collar with GM. Mom drove caddys and Dad drove half ton pickups. We had a 76, 81, 83, 86, 93 and 2000. For my money I would buy an 87 88 with the FI 5.7. I just like the old ones better
I dont think they have any huge problems, although most of them smoke pretty bad now. The vortec intakes leak, as people have mentioned already.
Surprising to me. It certainly has made me reconsider my options for a 90s truck to do DD/towing/hauling duty. Although I ought to hear what people have to say about Ford and Dodge of the same era to be fair
And if you break down... you can find parts almost anywhere.
Awesome, thanks everyone. My initial plan was to find him a F-150 with the straight 6 and a 5-speed but he likes Chevys better. I guess there's no accounting for taste
M030 wrote:
Wiper motors die suddenly and at inopportune moments. Like in torrential down pours when you're towing a car. Ask me how I know.
thats the only negative - other than that great trucks. i have a 90 c3500 ext cab dually with a 454 and 4 speed manual. i'll drive 88-93 trucks until i cant find any more. the tbi 4.3 is slow but i've put 5k behind one and pulled it no problem. the 305 is adequate, the 350 is nice, and the 454 is a torque monster. i've run them to 230K+ - the 4.3 and small block valve guide seals just aid in cylinder lubrication for startup to provide hundreds of thousands of trouble free miles.
my wipers went out in worst rain ever, i took a rope and tied it to the drivers wiper and made a giant loop through both windows and had manual wipers for the 45 minute ride home via dragging the rope side to side across the windshield. very tiring and hard to steer while using wipers and shifting at the same time.
Nashco
SuperDork
10/4/09 1:40 p.m.
Bobzilla wrote:
The TBI's were great engines. Simple. Solid. Reliable. I would give my eye teeth for another platform that reliable and simple to work on.
Ditto. Not the best power, fuel economy was better in later years, but when it comes to a rock solid, reliable platform it's nearly impossible to beat that era of Chevy trucks with TBI. On the rare occassion that you break something it's cheap and easy to find parts and fix. They're common enough that getting the 350 would be ideal, IMO (mileage is barely worse and it's got more torque), but if a great deal on a 4.3/305 landed in your lap those are great engines as well.
Bryce
Spent a whole lot of time round a 96 Z71 extended w/ vortec. That motor impresses me to this day. It moves the truck around quite nicely and sounds ok.
Fuel Pumps like to go bad more often than they should, same thing with starters, door hinges suck, will not turn sharp like a Ford,
SIDE MOUNTS ON THE BATTERIES are a pain, and that's about it.
Spend the money and get a 97+
JohnGalt wrote:
Spent a whole lot of time round a 96 Z71 extended w/ vortec. That motor impresses me to this day. It moves the truck around quite nicely and sounds ok.
Fuel Pumps like to go bad more often than they should, same thing with starters, door hinges suck, will not turn sharp like a Ford,
SIDE MOUNTS ON THE BATTERIES are a pain, and that's about it.
Spend the money and get a 97+
If you're happy with the 96, why are you telling him to get a "97+"? I assume you mean a 97 or a 98, since 99 was a major revamp. I'm not a real big fan of the glue on door hinges either but it seems like they worked alright for most people, we never had a problem with ours. If I had another I would probably change battery cable ends and move to a top mount when it was time to change the battery, side posts still annoy me too.