914 comparo? EV vs. Gas

Do the Suddards still own the the green 914? I'd love to see an EV vs. Gas comparo with the car featured here:

http://www.evcl.com/914/

^runs 13.8@98mph

I guess it would be hard to get an East Coast car and a West Coast car together for the test, but it'd be an interesting article...

I have a customer with an Electric one that lives....IN FLORIDA.

Set it up!

As long as neither car is trailered to or from the track, then it will be interesting.

There are no "in house" 914s at the moment, but they aren't impossible to find.

I'm not in a position to make editiorial plans, but I'll make sure the right folks are aware of the interest.

yes please!!! 914 is on my short list.

Are there any 914's left that haven't rusted into at least two pieces?

http://greenbay.craigslist.org/cto/2004874649.html

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sgv/ctd/2005827072.html

Challenge priced ones pop up all the time. I may have to go look at the wisconsin one

alfadriver wrote: As long as neither car is trailered to or from the track, then it will be interesting.

A third car would even be better- given the same budget for the EV swap- let a challenge team tear into a 914. See what they can do with it.

Holy crap - his parts budget is $20,000 + another $15,000 in labor. You could build a fleet of challenge 914s for that

In reply to oldtin:

that's become my benchmark for most of my automotive ideas the past couple years. "how many challenge cars is that?"

I still miss my 1.7 914, with 47k miles, 911 suspension/steering parts, not a spec of rust....got creamed when a guy ran a redlight.

bummer

Subaru engine is the way to go in a 914.

I thought it was worth mentioning that the electric 914 project referenced in the first post was started nearly a decade ago. Some of those parts used on that swap were brand new, the most popular stuff out there, and now unavailable...a lot changes in 10 years! I've seen this car in person, I assure you it isn't a $35k car anymore. Matter of fact, I think somebody else owns it now and I bet (hope?) they didn't pay that much for it.

I could easily build a $201X EV that would trump that 914 project that once-upon-a-time cost $35,000 to build. Don't think it hasn't crossed my mind!!!

alfadriver wrote: As long as neither car is trailered to or from the track, then it will be interesting.

I have to chuckle at that...it seemed that the majority of cars at the $2009 challenge were trailered (some of them weren't even licensed for the street). What with their gas engines and all, what was their excuse? Is it fair to say there's more to getting your race car to the track and back home than fuel source?

Bryce

$35k would build you a heck of an EV these days.

Nashco wrote:

alfadriver wrote: As long as neither car is trailered to or from the track, then it will be interesting.

I have to chuckle at that...it seemed that the majority of cars at the $2009 challenge were trailered (some of them weren't even licensed for the street). What with their gas engines and all, what was their excuse? Is it fair to say there's more to getting your race car to the track and back home than fuel source? Bryce

You have a point...

The reason I bring it up is that super high EV performance has a higher real world sacrifice than gas cars. So while doing the 1/4 in 13.5 seconds is cool- how many times can you do that? And for all the effort and money put into an EV conversion, there's a lot that can be done with a gas one.

Besides, the OP asked for a comparison with an essentially stock 914- which has no real performance adders.

So you choose- if you want to compare to a stock car, drive them to the track. If you want a non-stock comparison, give me the same money- and I'll even throw in any equallization of manufacturing CO2.

Just to brag about raw perfornace is quite misleading, IMHO.

In reply to alfadriver:

Same thing happens with ICE vehicles. What kind of mpg does that 27mpg ZO6 get when running the 1/4 mile? IIRC an EV drops to 40-50% efficiency during heavy use as opposed to 70-90% while cruising. That is probably right on par with the efficiency drop seen by an ICE going from cruising to full throttle.

Maybe after (if) I finish my challenge 914 and use it a little, I'll convert it to an EV and drive it around town.

MrJoshua wrote: In reply to alfadriver: Same thing happens with ICE vehicles. What kind of mpg does that 27mpg ZO6 get when running the 1/4 mile? IIRC an EV drops to 40-50% efficiency during heavy use as opposed to 70-90% while cruising. That is probably right on par with the efficiency drop seen by an ICE going from cruising to full throttle.

I'm not talking efficiecy- but range.

At least I can drive my 27mpg Z06 to the track, waste a gallon or so taking 2-3 runs, and then drive home. To do that with any EV would mean you live at the track.

Or the cost- if I could spend 20k on a 914, I bet I could clear 13 seconds, and still drive to and from the track. Or clear 11 seconds and not be able to drive to and from the track.

alfadriver wrote:

MrJoshua wrote: In reply to alfadriver: Same thing happens with ICE vehicles. What kind of mpg does that 27mpg ZO6 get when running the 1/4 mile? IIRC an EV drops to 40-50% efficiency during heavy use as opposed to 70-90% while cruising. That is probably right on par with the efficiency drop seen by an ICE going from cruising to full throttle.

I'm not talking efficiecy- but range. At least I can drive my 27mpg Z06 to the track, waste a gallon or so taking 2-3 runs, and then drive home. To do that with any EV would mean you live at the track. Or the cost- if I could spend 20k on a 914, I bet I could clear 13 seconds, and still drive to and from the track. Or clear 11 seconds and not be able to drive to and from the track.

Have you ever looked into energy consumption/SOC of an EV at the track, or are you just making stuff up? Having been to the EV drags several times, many of the EV racers leave the track with more charge than when they showed up to the track (usually full before the drive home). The interesting thing about race tracks and EVs is that race tracks are REALLY particular about where/how you fuel up your gas tank these days, but there are electrical outlets all over the place. The EV guys tend to make a pass or three, then check out their dataloggers, tune the electronics, adjust the suspension, etc. while the batteries top off again. Note that I said "top off"...they still have usable SOC, but to maximize performance it makes sense to have maximum energy on board.

I'm not going to get into "effort and money put into a conversion"...I don't really see the point of the discussion. Some people spend LOTS of time and money doing silly projects. If somebody converts a Wartburg into a rear engine crapcan racer, is that a better or worse use of their time than turning an EF Civic or BMW E30 into a crapcan racer? There are a lot of ways to skin a cat, to each his own, and all that.

I seem to recall the magazine comparing a minivan to sports cars. Was that silly, because for the $20k the van cost you could make a better car? I don't think that was the point of the article...

Bryce

Ok.

So it's ok to compare a EV car that you re-charge between runs to a gas car that you drive to and from the track with one tank of fuel. Cool. (edit- it would be way cool if the track would top off my gas tanks between runs and before I go home, too!)

All I'm trying to point out that an $20k EV conversion that can do the 1/4 in 13.xx sec shouldn't exactly be compared with a stock gas car. That's it.

On many levels.

Of course I'm making things up- the point is that EV storage is limited, both from space and mass, compared to gas, and cranking up it's power output to be "quick" doesn't address that. And if you can't make a 20k conversion quick, well, I'm not sure what to say.

It's a BS comparison, IMHO.

Eric