A Car for Humans That Isn't Soul Crushing

Long time stalker (04ish era) who used to be a registered member and a regular reader, but have long since left that email inbox and registration in the past along with a whole host of awesome cars that I had the pleasure of driving, working on, and some I even found joy in selling. RWD Turbo Volvos, E36, G60 Corrado, 240z, 20v AE86, two AW11's, 510, NB Miata, even a huge Q45 because why not? The usual cheap, fun cars that could be found readily in the mid 2000's.

I haven't been active really on a form since the Volvo or MR2 days, and this is where I'd usually post a story (novel?) like this. It's long, and if it's in the wrong sub-forum, sorry about that, the GRM forum is really a foreign land to me.

Anyways, this is long, so buckle up.

I went for a long time without a fun car. Selling the last RWD Volvo to get myself into a 4.0 ZJ Grand Cherokee that I was "just going to keep for a little bit, you know, to tow my boat" (I lived in Florida at the time). 9 something years later and with a move to the PNW, I still had it. I only recently sold it, and man, what a great rig. Everyone has their horror stories about that era of Chrysler, but I never had a bit of trouble with that thing, and I beat the snot out of it, overloaded with friends, smashing through snow, bouncing along forest roads, sitting in brutal Seattle traffic, and parallel parking with the best of them downtown (what curb?). Anyways, sold it after purchasing another RWD Turbo Volvo, thinking I wanted to build a "strong enough" daily driver, with lots of space for my outdoor toys, and a hitch for a bike rack, put a bunch of cash into maintenance and some small upgrades . Turns out, I didn't really want to drive an early nineties, sort of rattly Volvo any longer. Also, parts that seemed easy to find before weren't quite as common any longer, which made it frustrating to restore to where I wanted it to be.

So I sold it, and bought into the PNW uniform...

...I'm stomping around in an older, very boring, but very reliable Forester. It's good, and is likely the best "normal car" I have ever owned. Five speed, sticks to the ground like I've never seen a car do, and can drive up onto curbs, I like it, a lot. More than I thought I would, as it's my first Subaru. It's boring, also rusty.

On the off chance I have some time on my hands to do nothing else, I am wrenching (and maybe even driving) an '85 AW11. I love it. I saved this one from a huge hole in the side of it's transmission with a JB Welded and a bolted down plate (not kidding, works great, ask me about the video). I've had two others, a long time ago, like I mentioned. I bought this one on a whim after maybe an ill timed blessing from my Wife, I think she didn't realize how quickly I can mobilize my friend's diesel pickup and a rental trailer. I'm older now, and they feel lower, louder, and harder to park than I remember, but damn if that thing isn't just like an old pal from days past. It also sings on a mountain road, goes right where I point it, and gets exactly the looks you'd expect from a bright red noise maker in a sea of boring cars (i.e. my Forester). It's an emotionally driven connection, far from practical and far from frustration free. These cars barely exist any longer, parts are prohibitively expensive, if you can find them at all. Fifteen years ago, you could find what you needed at the pick-n-pull, these days, if you snap a piece of the notoriously brittle 80's plastic somewhere in the passenger compartment, good luck, so did everyone else and now it's made of unobtanium. The engine bay barely has enough space for the engine and 80's vacuum lines and electronic boxes and solenoids and intake piping, let alone your arms for maintenance. I joked in a recent YouTube video that one of the reasons for doing a 20 Valve swap is so they are easier to work on. I wasn't kidding. But did I mention it also has flip up headlights and is shaped like a glorious door wedge?

So things change, and also stay the same. I love these cars, that's the same. But now I also love being a new Dad, that's new, and now any family trip includes a car seat, lots of accessories, and so far as I know, CPS wouldn't enjoy me putting a car seat base on the engine lid of the deuce, that's also new.

I find my time availability to enjoy the AW11 only becoming shorter and shorter as time marches on, until the kiddo can ride in the passenger seat, which is a long time.

Not to mention the inevitable, "Is this thing safe enough? Is anything safe enough? Am I going to high center the MR2 on this speed bump? Can that dude-bro in his Tacoma even see me over his hood scoop?"

So here we are, the question that all car enthusiasts face at some point if they chose to have kids and have already fallen in love with things with two seats and little else.

Do you shed the skin of times past and move onto more practical enthusiast cars? Selling the MR2 to make way for something like a WRX, Forester XT, Audi something-or-another, BMW something-or-another? Keep plodding around in the boring Forester, and build a quick, fun, practical enthusiast car that also doubles as a family hauler when called upon. Nothing wild, something reliable, easy to drive, and easy to toss the keys to my wife who doesn't want to deal with "yea it's got a lumpy idle initially so you'll need to keep the throttle up at lights, and okay sure there is this little trick to starting it, but seriously sweetie it's only 7 steps it's not too hard". Maybe with the hope I'll find another one to buy later, or some equally unique toy car when it's not required to have a baby bucket at all times?

Speaking of the Forester, even this is a compromise, as I've already experienced limitations with the size of the passenger compartment of my Forester (basically an Impreza), and an XT would be no better. This has become much more apparent after the bazillion load/unload cycles of our baby bucket. I'm not a real tall guy, and I consider myself pretty flexible, but I'll be damned if getting that car seat into the base at the center of the back seat isn't just an opportunity for me to crunch myself up into a position that doesn't feel awesome. My Wife has a CR-V, and while not much larger, the added height makes loading the little dude in the back worlds easier. Fundamentally, I think I want/need something with a larger back seat area since this is my foreseeable future.

Do I mothball the MR2 for a not so rainy day? Staring longingly at it in the hopes that nothing else disintegrates in my hands? Simply replacing parts that are no longer available with obnoxious modifications as needed? Waiting for the day your kid is able to get dropped off to school in the coolest damn Dad-mobile on the block? Keeping it indefinitely because you'll likely never find another one that you can afford in an original 85 with a hardtop and crank windows? Even if I can't find or afford any factory replacement parts as needed? But, the payoff in a few years when he can ride in it would be huge, and even larger is the payoff where he could maybe run his first AutoX in it (holy E36 M3 I'll be old!), maybe even when it becomes his car. Thinking about time like that makes me head hurt. Thinking about my kid driving the type of car that made me fall in love with cars brings a tear to my eye. By the time this happens however, it'll be like Grandpa's old hammer (you know the story), but it would be Dad's car, and maybe that means something. Insurance is practically free, and it's getting antique plates this year so no more WA state tabs. It will literally only cost me the ground it sits on to keep it. But to keep it and tinker with it how I'd like to? That's a different story....

Or do I find some sort of compromise and slam together a stupid, grin inducing machine that also has a "back seat" in lieu of the red wedge? Convertible E36, turbo Cabrio, RX8, E39 sedan/wagon, maybe some huge four door saloon with a V8 (I've been learning about GRM's obsession with the P71, I also learned you can manual swap these?!) A compromised project car that can hold a car seat. Still fun and somewhat practical, but maybe with a significant bent towards being comfortable, maybe that's me getting old, but a strong torque curve and comfortable seats sound pretty nice to use as a commuter.

I try to think about my relationship with AW11's, with MR2's in general. Is it the car itself that I love? Is it what it stands for? Did I find any less enjoyment in my Datsun 240z when I had it? I try and think about those things now, now since decisions have to be made with respect to garage space, economic and time priorities, and usage. I don't have the time for two project cars, or the space, or the financial means, or even the time to enjoy a two seated romp in the mountains on most weekends.

This is also me being selfish. I would like an enjoyable, unique car that makes fun sounds to drive every day. To run errands in, to pick up the kiddo from daycare in, maybe for him and I to enjoy if he is into cars that do those things (yes I know that is a long way off). And of course, that isn't the MR2. It can never be the family hauler. It doesn't "do" carseats, or strollers, or camping gear, or mountain bikes, or...or....

I think a turbo boxer would make me happy. I often imagine my rust bucket with the heart of a WRX, and it makes me feel giddy. Chunndering through the snow and up forest roads like a scalded mountain goat. I get why people have these cars. They do seem to be the Leatherman of the automotive world. Want a track car? Or a high speed soft roader? Or a mini expedition rig? Or a long distance road trip car? Or a boring daily driver? Got ya covered. A mildly breathed on Forester XT or some other cool AWD wagonmeister seems like it could do all of these things.

But is it a sexy red wedge that stands out from the crowd? No. It is not. And that makes me a little sad. But, I love my Son, my Wife, our life of adventure, fun cars, and I'm beginning to realize I want to combine all of those things at once. And it makes me wonder if it's time to leave the little car, and my past, behind.

This is a long post, thanks for reading this far if you're here. If you've had to move through this decision, I'd welcome some thoughts. Maybe this is considered too personal, too philosophical for a first post, I hope it's not. It seems as if most automotive enthusiasts have to ask this type of question at some point.

I also realize I haven't ever met any of you fine folks, but as like minded individuals, I'm all ears.

Cheers,

Steve

P.S. I also want some bloody cupholders. Why is it so hard to find a cool car with cupholders?!

From here: 

There is no Oregon law specifically prohibiting children from riding in the front seat of passenger vehicles. However, a rear-facing infant seat cannot be placed in a front seating position that is equipped with an airbag because this would violate Oregon's requirement for "proper use" of a child safety seat. There is a national "best practice recommendation" calling for rear seating through age twelve.

This says that your MR2 is an acceptable mode of transportation for your little dude.  The fact that the MR2 is old enough to not have a passenger airbag works to your advantage in this case.  

This is the National statement on front seat use.

The safest place for children 12 and under is properly buckled in the back seat. If a child in a forward-facing seat must sit in the front seat because no other seat is available, the seat should be moved as far back from the air bag as possible, and the child should sit in a car seat that’s appropriate for his or her size and age. 

It only says that the rear seat is the safest.  It does not forbid the use of the front seat.  It does warn that the airbag is dangerous.  We could further argue that the middle rear seat is the safest place in the rear because then less possibility of intrusion from a side impact but some cars only offer 2 seat belts in the rear. So, not mention of that in the national statement.  

Furthermore, it says:

Best Practice: Children under the age of 1 should always be in a rear-facing seat in the back seat. They should remain in a rear-facing seat until they reach the top height or weight limits listed on the seat

Best practice then again says back seat is best but not required, just best.  

Personally, I transport my daughter in my 2006 Ford F250 single cab (with the airbag turned off) and my '90 Miata which has no passenger side air bag.   

Further supporting evidence... My '06 F250 single cab has all the child seat safety latches as required by law.  Sure, the back seat may be best but the manufacturing regs has made sure it is ready to use the front.  

Facing a similar dilemma, I bought a Focus RS instead of the newly introduced ND Miata when we discovered we were expecting.  I had already sold my Porsche 944 Turbo S in preparation for getting something newer and more reliable.

While it isn't exactly spacious, it fits the (now) two car seats just fine along with my wife and I plus another average sized adult.  The wife replaced her hand me down Highlander for a Pacifica Hybrid and like all minivans it does nearly everything we need as a family.

I kept my Porsche 924 project for something to tinker with when I need to get away from the day to day grind of adulting.  I still look at prospective projects on CL/FBM from time to time, but that's just passing time until I can knock off work and go play in the garage (which happens way too infrequently).

Speaking of which, I need to finish building the toddler tower this weekend so I can get the 924 into the garage before the end of the year, its sat on the street for way too long.

Welcome Steve! 
 

Surely those MR2 interior bits have been scanned, modeled and available via open source for 3D printing. If not.. what's wrong with people?

OHSCrifle said:

Welcome Steve! 
 

Surely those MR2 interior bits have been scanned, modeled and available via open source for 3D printing. If not.. what's wrong with people?

Search on Yeggi.com for any available 3D models ( there are some for the 924/944, so I suspect there are some for other imports as well)

It's tough, I've been there. I had my dream truck when we became new parents. 2000 Tacoma TRD 4X4, extended cab, supercharged 3.4, five speed. 

Baby seat wouldn't fit in the back. Needed to cut expenses.

Sold it, took over my wife's daily (95 P71), and bought her an Odyssey. 

At the end of the day, it's just a thing. 

Keep the MR2 or another 2 seater.  It will be special when the kiddo gets to ride in Dad's car.  FWIW my 85 MR2 had long been my favorite car.  It was unseated from the throne by my FR-S.  If you want something newer go try an FR-S/BRZ/86.  Bonus: the 86 chassis has a rear seat (kinda, if you don't have legs).

If you're looking for one car that does most things, a 6-speed G35 is basically a LWB 350Z with a rear seat and should do nicely for dad duty. If you have more scratch, LCI E90 335is with the N55 are getting temptingly cheap and are proving to be more reliable than N54 cars.

This would make a great daddy car  

there is also a newer ATS model

amg_rx7 said:

 

This would make a great daddy car  

there is also a newer ATS model

I wanted to get one of those when I wasn't sure I was going to get my RS.  The prices on them are insane and they didn't make very many.  A great solution if you can swing it, but that might be a tap order for some.

While I don't yet have anything useful to add, reading your post is basically what goes through my head in a daily basis when daydreaming about the next fun car.    Side note:   I learned to drive stick on your model MR2 and I have a turbo 90 NA miata that my 11 year old doesn't want to ride in because it's 'too small.'.  Keeping it anyway.  

In reply to Steve :

See this recent GRM chatter about car seats and early parenthood. 

Steve,

I read your full post all the way through.  No need to be apologetic- most of us here have to balance our car obsession with other constraints, be they time, money, family, restoring an old house, whatever.

When my wife and I got married, we had a 1980 Mercedes 450SL, the venerably R107.  We'd honeymooned in it, we took long road trips in it, it was the cruiser.  After our first child (daughter) was born, the car sat.  I kept saying, "Oh, I'll drive it to work, commute in it", but the truth was I sort of felt guilty enjoying the car alone.  Or maybe not guilty, per se, but something just felt....wrong.  In the 2 years after my daughter was born, we put exactly 107 miles on the car.  So we talked about it, and, in the end, decided to sell it.  It just wasn't working for us.  We had a lot of memories (not to mention money and time, as you do with an old Mercedes) tied up in that car, but you know, we sold it, and we still have those memories.  That's the great thing about them.

Now, we still have cool cars.  My wife has a '68 Camaro and I have a '64 Corvair, a '66 Jaguar sedan, and other "project" cars.  They have back seats, with seat belts, and we put the kids in them and drive them.  Not all the time, and not much further generally than the ice cream stand.  Sometimes I drive them to work, to keep them lubed up and put fresh gas in them.  We sold a bunch of other "project" cars and she got a newer Suburban and I got a brand new Mazda3 hatch last year, so we have "adult" transportation that we don't have to think too much about.  So far, knock on wood, it's working for us. 

No one can tell you what you want.  Try to look at yourself objectively, and definitely discuss with Mrs. Steve and find out what her wants and needs and stuff are.  I'm fortunate that Mrs. VCH is a car girl, and I realize I'm probably in the minority here.  Most guys' S/O's are somewhere on the spectrum between "tolerates car stuff" and "begrudges every penny spent on cars that isn't being spent on them".  The deacon who married us told us once that 100% of marriages end because of one thing:  NOT COMMUNICATING.  Money, affairs, not spending time together, or simply growing apart all stem from that one thing- communication, and lack thereof.  So make sure she's included on the discussion.  

I say this from experience.  I was single for a long time before getting married, and got used to simply plunking down cash whenever I wanted a car.  The first time I did that after being married, we had a talk.  She didn't care that I had bought a car, she didn't care about the money- what she cared about was that I'd done it without even mentioning it to her at all.  Old habits die hard.  

Good luck in your quest.  I suspect, based on your past, that there won't be "the one" car that scratches your itch.  That's part of the fun of it.  

You've covered a lot of ground in that original post, and I'd echo that I think most enthusiasts that have a family deal with this kind of dilemma at some point in their lives.

I think it all comes down to perspective. You might not be able to control all of the variables in your life, but one of the areas that you have the most control over is your attitude.

If it's really not feasible to store the MR2 for awhile, then you might have to sell it. Obviously, it's a bummer getting rid of a car you love, but you don't really have to think of the sedan or wagon you replace it with as a compromise. Instead focus on the things that your new ride is great at. 

I'm fortunate in that I've been a long time fan of sedans and GT cars. When it came time I got rid of my AP1 S2000 and bought and old E34 wagon. I can honestly say that I enjoy driving that car more of the time I am in it than I did the S2000. I took the car on a crazy road trip. 4200 miles in 5 days. I am almost certain I would never have done that in the Honda. I look forward to the day when I can take the whole family on long road trips in my classic car. The point is that all cars are a compromise in some way, it's better to focus on the good, rather than the bad.

You don't have to give up on enjoying cars just because you have a family, but you might need to change how you go about enjoying them.

Thanks everyone, this is all very helpful.

One of the things I left when I moved to the West coast was a great group of guys that I grew up with through the late night night garage era of my life, who have all moved past that hobby, but were there at least to shoot the breeze with. I love my friends out here, but there just isn't that same cohesion or understanding (no one gets why I bought this little red car). Anyways, the attitude at GRM has always resonated with me, and these responses support that.

A few things that stuck out.

VCH, you're right, and I have the same feeling about my MR2. I love this car, driving it is a joy, and it reminds me of a great time in my life. But something does feel a little bit off. I'm not sure what it is, but it's there. I think part of it is not having a goal in mind for the car. It can't be a commuter or family hauler, so what is it? Art? An investment? I'm not one to just stare at a car in the garage forever.

So maybe that's part of the part of the problem? Maybe the goal is to slowly prep it for autoX or the occasional track day? Focus all my "car" energies there, and just drive my cheap Subaru into the ground (figuratively of course, basically, don't modify it, well maybe an exhaust and some suspension work) and deal with crunching myself up to get the little dude in the back until there is a little more breathing room in our budget. It's cheap, reliable, safe, and goes anywhere, I can't fault it, except that it's as boring and reliable as a stone.

Also, OHSCrifle, your comment about the interiors. You would think that, but I haven't seen anything yet. Heck, only recently did I see a reasonable reproduction of the loved/hated C Pillar trim. I think these cars fell in a weird market, and weren't well received after the 80's greatness wore off and other cars debuted that were easier to drive, had better features, and didn't spin you around if you got a little too frisky, and they started to get cheaper and cheaper. Also, they were "weird", couldn't be tossed around like a Miata, and were hard to work on (comparitively).

They just didn't catch on enough for people to flood the market with resto-mod parts. Most of the OEM parts I see on eBay just make me think people are buying these cars and breaking them to sell out the parts. Makes me sad. Increases my resale value, but makes me sad. But the money is there if no one is reproducing the pieces so how can I blame them?

Anyways, that's a tangent. But the moral there is that despite all of it's faults, despite the fact that my hamstrings and forearms just get regularly brutalized every time work on this thing, I love it. That's the weird part.

I think I'll keep it, at least until it becomes a serious burden. Right now, it's me overthinking the future. But, it costs me barely anything to own, and like Stefan said up there, it's a good break from adulting when I have the chance to tinker.

VCH, I wanted to add as well, my Wife and I have talked about this at serious length (probably too much), but I do still appreciate your comment about communication. It's something we've seen cause some serious issues in a lot of relationships, whether it's a car habit or not. She understands my relationship with cars, and while she isn't a car-gal, she gets it (we bought here a sewing machine that costs as much as most of my cars). She knows I really enjoy the MR2, even if it is basically useless for the family. But, it makes me smile, keeps me on my toes, and reminds me that it's okay to hang onto the things you find value in, even if it's impractical, maybe that's the best use it can have for our family.

When I get my butt in gear, I'll put together the slowest updating build thread on the GRM forum. Stay tuned.

Thanks again, everyone

-Steve

P.S. We're also on track to add some sort of minivan to our squad for ease of travel (we're not masochists).  

Stefan said:

amg_rx7 said:

 

This would make a great daddy car  

there is also a newer ATS model

I wanted to get one of those when I wasn't sure I was going to get my RS.  The prices on them are insane and they didn't make very many.  A great solution if you can swing it, but that might be a tap order for some.

There's one manual wagon in the US on autotrader right now. ONE. Ask me how I know.

It's like looking in a mirror...

My wife had twins four years ago.  Due to that event, I have a mostly inert (but not inoperable) AW11 sitting in the garage right now that I can't seem to part from.  I also have a daily driver Subaru.

I'd be a hypocrite if I recommended the smart thing to do and sell the MR2 and Forester and replace with one car that's newer and objectively better than either.   Instead just replace the Forester with something less boring, but won't break the bank.  My choice was a WRX, but I think I'd also be pretty happy in a E36 M3/4/5.  If that's not in the budget then a 328+mods is dirt cheap these days.  Just sayin.

I don't want to threadjack or belabor the point, but to add encouragement I'll include my Dad cars. 

Here's the back of my E39 M5 as it currently sits.

I can fit a rear facing seat and infant carrier, while still having room for humans in the front.

Proof

You don't have to get an M5, but there are plenty of cars that are practical AND fun.

Steve my son is now 25 but when he was a toddler I used my Showroom Stock Miata race car as a daily driver. For a few years after the Miata I had a fully caged Volvo 144 rally car that was my daily. I also had a MR2. After that I owned a Protege for 10 years.

During this time my wife had a mini van so we used that to go out to dinner or stores etc. She's supportive of my hobby as well so that helps.

My situation was/is a little different in that I've always had a truck (usaully at least 25 years old) to tow the race car.

My current daily is a 11 Outback 6 speed manual that I bought 5 years ago, for 17K and I intend to drive for at least 5 more years. I'd intended to buy something sporty but went with the Outback as I needed to haul parts for the Datsun I've raced for the last 30 years. Additionally my wife wanted something that rode nicer than my usually daily drivers and after 29 years of marriage I thought it a small concession.

I used the cash I didn't spend on my daily to buy a Formula 500 race car. It's even less practical then your MR2 but the wife is OK with it and I can afford it. (I'm in the car for $4500 to date)

My vote is keep the MR2 and drive the boring Forester when the MR2 won't do the job.  As toys go you have way less than most people here. If the charm wears off you can sell and get something else.

I'll leave you with this; my son has great memories of the Miata, Volvo and  the MR2. He almost never mentions the mini van or the two old Ford trucks. You have a supportive wife who is accepting of your car hobby................doesn't get better than that.

Yay!!  Glad you're keeping the Mister.  My dad had a 62 Corvette that he traded for an Impala when I was born.  I rag on him for that every chance I get.

In reply to Matt B :

Sorry for the de-rail, but I test-drove that exact M3 once! Where did you get the pic?

Welcome Steve, you’ve come to the right place.

I sold my 2 door marquis and my turbo swapped mustang when we found out kids were on the way. Later I got another foxbody mustang and hated hauling the kids in it, so I found a station wagon on the same platform. I still worry about someone hitting it, the chassis isn't exactly known for how sturdy it is. But my kids who are 11 now love the car. It's there choice to go anywhere, I'm kind of amazed they still like riding too school In it!

Matt B, amazing how close that hits to home! 

To you and MTechnically, I put a lot of thought into a BMW, a lot. I had that E36 coupe before, and man, that was a car. Just a fantastic driving, smooth running, good looking car. 

I had a line on an E39 wagon locally, manual, 2.8, M sport package, for what I'd consider an across the line swap once I sold the Forester, but a lack of return communication meant someone else ended up with the car. During that thought process, I was reminded of two things: 

1. I was always buying the next thing for my E36. And the strong BMW community was producing far too many beautiful cars for me to ignore. Hence, after finding that E39 Touring, I went down a deep rabbit hole of everything I'd do that car. Well, that doesn't fit the brief for a DD.  
2. I am also reminded of the time I got in my E36 and suddenly my information display was working. I owned the car for about a year prior, never worked, never looked into it, and then all of a sudden, here we are. No other way to slice it, a poorly kept BMW can be a cess pool of problems. My dumb clunky Japanese rattle bucket, while not as refined as an M Package E39 no doubt, runs like an appliance. So there's that. I'll leave the finicky characteristics to the toy car. (but I still won't stop looking at E39 Tooooourings)

And to you Tom, I know what you mean. I remember a lot of things we did as a family when I was growing up, but I have a few vivid memories of riding in or working on particular cars with my Father. He waited a long, long time to get the car he always wanted (64 T Bird, a driver, not a show queen, thank goodness), and to be able to share this hobby with my Son at a younger age would be a joy. Maybe this is far fetched, but I grew up in a "be happy with what ya got" kind of house, driving and working on what the family could afford. Nothing wrong with that, but it took me a long time to know that if you wanted more, you had to go out and get it.

i.e. Find a way to get what you want, and then be damn sure you find a way to keep it. 

As always, great feedback. Thanks everyone, it's a relief to hear so many similar stories. 

-Steve

Wait.... why can't the kid ride in the passenger seat or the mr2? I daily my zzw30 with a recaro child seat, it works great, she loves it. Aw11 doesnt even have airbags to turn off or delete, whats the problem? 

I really wish Genesis made their flagships available in wagon form.