A Description of Drifting

Dave Dave Dave, have you ever actually drag raced your car? 05-06 GTO's put down 400HP/400TQ stock. Guys that have never drag raced (even ones that have track day'ed) barely run mid-14's and look like bozos out there. "Decent" drivers do mid-13's. Great drivers do low 13's. I held the record for a stock GTO at 13.09@108.5 for over a year. You have to KNOW your car before you can really push it in corners. Not to mention the decreased reaction times and pure driving ability you learn and acquire. Just like drifting and autocrossing, you really have NO idea how hard it is until you actually DO it.

blaze86vic wrote: As has already been stated, drifting is about drifting, but the drifting 'scene' is very impacted by looks. And I'm glad it's that way. Because it's the only motorsport where people build really cool and nice looking cars, and then ACTUALLY USE THEM! I think that this group here understands that more than most. Driving your car hard is cool, making it look sweet is cool, driving a your sweet looking car hard is AWESOMUS MAXIMUS!

ARE YOU SERIOUS? Wow, I never that was. That's my kind of thinking and I agree with Michael.

God some of you have really poor reading comprehension. The point of my post above was simply about the "scene" and how it compares between drifting and drag racing and how there are similarities. I wasn't debating which was better or worse.

It comes down to the people who pay attention to the details and think for themselves and enjoy themselves (this is not to say they do their own work) versus the people who tend to be sheep and follow what other have done and are constantly unhappy because they can't copy the results others achieve.

Essentially racing, much like life is all about the rubber ducky syndrome and whether you know why you bought that "rubber ducky" Personally, I like knowing the answer to that question and it seems many of us here do as well which is why this forum and magazine work so well.

Mike, LOL! I understand that there is some skill involved in properly launching and shifting . . .what I'm saying is that if the fastest cars are mostly automatic, where's the skill there?

You said you have to "know your car" before you can push it. I don't think driving very fast in a straight line is going to teach you the handling dynamics, turn in, turn out, braking effect or threshold of anything on your car besides how much throttle is required to make the tires spin from a dig. Launching and shifting while going straight won't teach you where your car is in the corners, not from what I've seen at least. It may teach you where your power band is so you can get optimal accelleration, but it's not going to teach you what to do if you get on the brakes too late, slow down to much then get back on the throttle too hard (a common mistake for ALL ranks of drivers) when in a corner.

I'll say this, I'm a fan of watching my friends race, it's fun to cheer them on. But with that, I'll add: If you take a person that's a true Drag Racer. All they do is drag race, it's their passion. And I mean they're GOOD! They run a 12.5 in their car where as anyone else running it can only manage 13's. He's a drag racer's drag racer. Bring him to a drifting event. The outcome won't be pretty, LOL! It'll be fun, but not pretty. By the end of his last run (most drift events usually have about 25-40 runs) he may be able to hold the sweeper, but transitioning will most likely still best him.

Flip the script, take a drifter who is only a drifter. Doesn't do anything else, it's HIS passion. And HE'S good! A drifter's drifter, he can get full smoke (to the A-pillar), maximum entry speed, awesome line and angle while pushing close to the other drifter. A drifter's drifter. Put him in a drag race. The results, again, will be fun . . .not pretty . . .but fun. However, by the end of the day, since he's probably already got shifting down, he'll need to focus on his launch and timing. He'll probably (not definitely, probably) be able to get very close to a good launch and a good ET for his car and his first day on the track.

-Dave

Stig, the automatics are manually shifted and tend to shift faster than you ever could. Plus automatics are used because they tend to be more consistent and can handle the power better. Not too mention the added benefit of being able to use your left-foot to brake stand at the line to get the turbo spooled or the engine into the meat of its power range.

So basically what you're saying is that if you tailor your skills toward a particular sport (whether it is drifting, baseball, etc) and you try to take those skills and apply them to another sport that you'll suck? Wow, that is truly hard to believe.

In the end though, I have to ask, would you respect someone who is highly skilled in an avenue of racing that you don't participate in? If so, great. If not, then you're as bad as the people who make fun of drifting because they refuse to acknowledge the skill involved. Just because I don't drag race or drift or road race or off-road race or rally or autocross or mudbog or ice race, etc doesn't mean I don't respect the skills needed to perform in those types of events. Hell, that doesn't mean I even enjoy watching them, either, but it is a free country and it is their money and freetime to enjoy how they choose to.

I never said I didn't respect it, in fact, I acknowledged the skills required in abundance. I also mentioned, on more than one occasion, that I enjoy going out there with my friends and watching them race while cheering them on. I just happened to have more points than counter points is all.

I respect racers from all fields, to be honest. I have friends who are hardcore autocrossers, I have friends who couldn't imagine life without Road Racing. I have friends who run Rally Sprints and Rally Trials and could never picture themselves doing anything else. I'm into it all, watch it all, I just don't do it all. Nor would I ask them to do the same.

In the same respect as the above, I never said that if someone focuses on one aspect of racing that they won't be able to perform well in another. I just said that if you spend your time driving straight and trying to keep your car FROM going sideways, when your objective flips over towards getting your tail end out, holding it there and driving a course in that manner, the results MOST LIKELY won't be spectacular. I also added the objective word "think" to bring to light that this is how it pans out in my head. After doing a full year of drifting, sometimes 2 events per month, I can't picture even the best drag racer doing well his first time if drag racing has been his ONLY focus.

I'm not trying to make anyone feel any lower on the totem pole. This is GRM and we're definitely all in this together in all aspects. I just have the opinion that there is a slightly higher level of driving skill in drifting than there is in drag racing. That's all. I apologize if this offends anyone, but this IS a forum and that's why there are members with experience in other forms of racing, such as Michael, who can teach me otherwise.

-Dave

Dave,

I was generally accepted as one of the Top 5 drifters out of the 40-50 cars in my first (and only) event. Drag racers are actually probably one of the best drivers to get into drifting because they know how a car handles under too much power/not enough traction. Again, until you've actually tried drag racing you have NO idea what it's like.

^+1. I used to be a hater, until I went along to a few local drag events as a spectator. Got to get right up close to the action, talk to the drivers and check out their cars. There's way more to the sport than I thought. Only lack of an appropriate car keeps me from giving it a shot.

blaze86vic wrote: Because it's the only motorsport where people build really cool and nice looking cars, and then ACTUALLY USE THEM!

I don't quite understand your thinking,

How is a front-engined dragster or belly tank not really cool and nice looking?

I'm sorry, I like slalom just fin but I'd give my left nut to pilot a FED just once.

If you don't think purpose built race cars look badass then there's something wrong with you.

Example:

Shawn

Purpose built race cars are cool and tough looking, but they aren't show. They don't (except massively sponsored cars) have kick ass body kits and graphics with all the little accessory bits to top it off. It's like seeing the crazy cars at SEMA being thrashed around.

Beginner drift events, do tend to be 98% ragged out cars, but really good drifters that can go all day and not spin out or lose control even once after 20 two minute runs aren't at every drift event.

I have been drag racing before....lame it was. Now I'm not saying there isn't skill involved. But like anything, too much of one thing isn't good. Drag racing is purely a power game. The only time drag racing gets to be difficult is when you have enough power that you spend the entire 1/4 mile just keeping the car out of the walls. Which again is nothing about handling. Yeah, you can keep it within the 20 feet that you are alloted and that takes skill, but that's nothing like having to hit the apex of a turn at 100mph where 2-3 inches is everything. Even the shifting part is useless in other motorsports (unless you like having a trans blow up in ever track weekend). There is a purely speed oriented shifting style, and then there is a smooth shifting style which balances speed and kindness to the transmission.

While drag racing teaches you how to threshold accelerate it does not teach threshold braking or cornering or any combination of the bunch. Plus, it's like every other major American sport, 10 seconds of play per every 5 minutes of waiting. I'll take my 30 minutes of play.

I don't mean to offend anyone, but I have tried it (twice) because I don't judge until I've done it, but that's just how I feel about it.

The only drift event i have been to was at Rt. 66 raceway in Joliet about 4 years ago. The regular guys that were drifting there ( quite well, I might add) had cars that were kind of scabby, or stock looking at best. Once I got over the scabyness, I really began to enjoy myself.

Funny that Miatas and drifting were mentioned here. I frequent Miata.net. Those guys hate drifting with a passion. Glad to see that's not true here.

blaze86vic wrote: Purpose built race cars are cool and tough looking, but they aren't show.

Umm.. Ok..

Here ya go:

There's a few of the most famous purpose built vehicles, there's plenty of "Show" in them. These weren't (except for the GT40 ) mega-buck sponsored cars either.

Sorry but body kits which only look good and contribute nothing to the performance of the car are lame no matter how you look at it.

Shawn

I have to agree that drifting has become incredibly "scene". its kind of made a loop in the sport compact community. Forever it seemed like it was gawdy stupid body kits, lights and dumb stuff... then came the whole "JDM" "OEM" fad, then drifting came along and it was all big for awhile, then back to the body kits. I had a couple of friends who drifted a LOT both on the streets and at any evernt they could go to. They always talked about drivers, how they were the drivers. that became the scene, those who drifted, and anything else whether it be going to an hpde or autocross or whatever, to them that was just parking, neither was "driving" to them. Until my friend took out a telephone pole and it fell on the car. talk about taking someones ego down a notch... but hes got a car again. and guess what..... hes got a body kit now. either way its going to die down eventually. im an owner of a civic, and an old rwd corolla. i just want to do both. drifting is so much fun. Grip driving is just something completely different.

drifting=competition/challenge that feels like a party

autocross/really racing= a challenge of your own ability and or knowledge

another note: i once asked a couple different people at a drift event if they would be interested in going to an autocross the following weekend. almost all of them replied

Nah... those guys that run those things are @**holes.

I still don't see how finding a slower way around a track is exciting.

I also don't understand why drifters would not like the guys who dress up the cars a lot, just for looks. Isn't the whole idea of drifting to look good? Someone mentioned "smoke to the A pillars" (that would make a good rap song title). Wouldn't lots of smoke be for show? It cant possibly make the car faster around the track, so it must be. So, then, why all the anger towards drifter poseurs?

I don't get it. I know it takes a lot of skill, but so do a lot of things I don't understand.

Joey

it all is about looks if you think about it though... its a JUDGED sport. depending on who your judge is, he might be basing it off your looks while the judge next to him is judging on your angle/skill level.

BTW the whole story about comparing it to pokemon cards definitely made me laugh

Trans_Maro wrote:

blaze86vic wrote: Purpose built race cars are cool and tough looking, but they aren't show.

Umm.. Ok.. Here ya go: There's a few of the most famous purpose built vehicles, there's plenty of "Show" in them. These weren't (except for the GT40 ) mega-buck sponsored cars either. Sorry but body kits which only look good and contribute nothing to the performance of the car are lame no matter how you look at it. Shawn

A lot of the cleaner better looking body kits on the market are beneficial, they just can't afford wind tunnel time to prove it, nor would 90% of their market care. And as I had stated earlier I just don't put strait line anywhere near drifting, or road racing. The risk is way lower to the car in drag racing, mainly because it's only going in a strait line, so their are lots of show cars with time and money spent on them, but for the most part the cars not in any real danger, at least nothing like drifting.

This is a good example of the talent required to "drive" a 1/4 mile, perfect throttle control is what you need. If you can run a respectable 12 second run and not even need the front wheels, then I just can't accept that it's just as hard as drifting or road racing or autocross. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=um9lxmqjKgI

How can you people not understand the joy of drifting. Stop looking at it as a pure competition, and look at it as something fun to do. I never talked to anyone who said they hated ever going into oversteer. If you've driven on track before, and come out of a turn a little sideways, irrelevantly of the speed it put a smile on your face.

That's what drifting is, fun. Having participated in all 4 styles of driving. Drifting is by far the friendliest crowd of them all. That's one of the reasons I fell in love with it, the people are all there to put a smile on their face. Not for some piece of shiny metal, and that's why it seems like a party, because it is.

P71 wrote: The vast majority of these cars are built to the hilt and are amazingly good looking. Show quality paint, fully detailed engine bays, painted and polished suspension pieces! These guys and girls pour their souls into their cars and it shows!

I've been to the dragstrip many times. I've come across some show quality cars, but there are a lot of beater/budget cars out there, too ----- just like road racing, autocross, drifting, etc, etc, etc.

How can you people not understand the joy of drag racing? Stop looking at it as a pure competition, and look at it as something fun to do. I never talked to anyone who said they hated ever lifting the front tires off of the ground in a 3.5G launch. If you've driven on track before, and beat your competitor by less then .001 seconds, irrelevantly of the speed it put a smile on your face.

That's what drag racing is, fun. Having participated in all 4 styles of driving. Drag racing is by far the friendliest crowd of them all. That's one of the reasons I fell in love with it, the people are all there to put a smile on their face. Not for some piece of shiny metal, and that's why it seems like a party, because it is.

P71 wrote: How can you people not understand the joy of drag racing? Stop looking at it as a pure competition, and look at it as something fun to do. I never talked to anyone who said they hated ever lifting the front tires off of the ground in a 3.5G launch. If you've driven on track before, and beat your competitor by less then .001 seconds, irrelevantly of the speed it put a smile on your face. That's what drag racing is, fun. Having participated in all 4 styles of driving. Drag racing is by far the friendliest crowd of them all. That's one of the reasons I fell in love with it, the people are all there to put a smile on their face. Not for some piece of shiny metal, and that's why it seems like a party, because it is.

I actually do understand the joy of drag racing. Close competition is hard to find. I just don't mark it as an extremely driver skill dependent sport, as it is 98% dependant on the cars to do the work. I had fun driving down the track just a few feet ahead of my buddy. It was a blast.....and then it was over.....and then I waited 45 minutes and had some fun again and then it was over again.....and then I was out $20 for 1/2 mile of racings.......which I usually get more than that on the way to work every day. And then a year later I give it another chance in completely different state, and the same thing happens.

$ / Drag racings just doesn't cut it for me.

No, you're just at the wrong track. At PIR it's $22 to run at T-N-T night and the average is 20 passes. That's nearly a dollar a run.

I just wanna say that I don't hate on drag racing, I just can't accept that it takes the same level of skill as drifting. That is all.

-Dave

Drag racings:

$1 per 15 seconds or less of fun.

Drifting (practice event usually run around $70, with 20, 1.5 minute runs.):

$1 per 25 seconds or less of fun.

Road Racing (HPDE, 4 hours, $400):

$1 per 36 seconds of fun (note the lack of or less, because you don't get less play time for being faster)

I know I'm a nerd for going all analytical on it, but I like to get the most for my money.

Dave, having done both (and drag raced actually fast cars) I have to say drifting takes nowhere near the skill the skill level of keeping a 700+ HP 9-second car on the track.

blaze86vic wrote: Drag racings: $1 per 15 seconds or less of fun. Drifting (practice event usually run around $70, with 20, 1.5 minute runs.): $1 per 25 seconds or less of fun. Road Racing (HPDE, 4 hours, $400): $1 per 36 seconds of fun (note the lack of or less, because you don't get less play time for being faster) I know I'm a nerd for going all analytical on it, but I like to get the most for my money.

By those standards, autocrossing around here is quite a ripoff! I think we would pay about 30 and get four or five runs, that are 30 to 40 seconds. Lets say 40. $30 divided by 200 seconds (5 40 second runs) that's 9 bucks a run! Ouch!

(Actually, I dont think the autocrosses around here are ripoffs, they are very well run, and a lot of fun)

Joey