A question about E street.

Ran my first autocross today in the Miata. I did very well, even though getting classed into STR. My closest competition (a guy in a NB) was somehow classed into e street), I’m thinking I want to aim for this class as well. I was put into STR because of the modifications that came on this car. Namely, a COP conversion using an Audi module and CBR sticks (which have been proven, on a stock ECU, to actually provide LESS dwell than the OEM na8 miata setup).

the other modification is a test pipe, with no secondary o2.  

My question is this: in the E street class rules. I don’t see anything about a COP conversion not being legal. Section 13.9 states: 

“A. The make of spark plugs, points, ignition coil and high tension wires is un-restricted including spark plug wires having an in-line capacitor. Substitution or addition of ignition coil mounting brackets is permitted, provided they affix to the original standard location and serve no other purpose. (Modification of the distributor cap for the purpose of installing allowed non-standard components is not permitted.)
13.9 ELECTRICAL SYSTEM
B. On cars made prior to January 1, 1968, any ignition system using a standard distributor without modification may be used.
C. Ignition settings may not be adjusted outside factory specifications.
D. No changes are permitted to electronic engine management systems or their programming.”

so it sounds like my COP conversion would stay legal. You might ask “why do you want a weaker spark system?”  Easy. It’s cheaper. It’s doesnt chew through spark plug wires. And is easy to come by for parts. 

Second question: if I put a factory cat in the system, does the secondary o2 have to be connected as well? Rules state “the cat system must be in place and be in working condition.” Not sure if this applies to the o2 sensor that monitors that cat. 

Thanks folks! I had a blast today! And I was sure faster than a lot of cars out here today, much to my surprise. 

I came here to make a bruce springsteen joke but it’s late so I won’t 

Sorry, not a sprangstang fan, so I wouldn’t have gotten it anyways.  But, please, do tell. 

The make of coils is free but the number of them is not.

There is also no allowance for adding engine management hardware (on vehicles made after 1968).  In fact 13.9.D specifically says you can't change the hardware.  That Audi module counts as engine management.

13.9.B appears to be written so that older points-equipped cars (but not newer ones) may convert to electronic ignition, either inside the distribtor or with an external box like an MSD, as long as the original distributor is still in use.  Your COP kit would be the modern analogue to this kind of modification.

The other "question" would be the mounting- 13.9.A pretty clearly says that the system has to use the "original standard location" and moving to COP is very much not that.

The exhaust mod is pretty clear, isn't it?  You didn't ask about that one....

The SCCA solo rulebook is very much an "if it's not explicitly allowed, it's not legal" kind of thing.

It’s any wonder why people at autocrosses don’t get why more people don’t participate. 

“Sorry your color is red. This class is only for white colored Soviet pre ww2 era vehicles...” 

Ranger50 said:

It’s any wonder why people at autocrosses don’t get why more people don’t participate. 

“Sorry your color is red. This class is only for white colored Soviet pre ww2 era vehicles...” 

Well, one can't complain much if they modified their car and THEN want to see what class they run in as an afterthought.

On the other hand, the SCCA has been trying to accept this market with new classing that is a lot more anything-goes while restricting tires.  Because the guy who finds himself bumped out to Prepared because of some innocuous hack/repair (such as me, for instance) is also probably not going to be rolling up on gum-eraser slicks.

(I still like Chris Hastings' idea for a rallycross class that is basically anything-goes suspension and drivetrain wise like Mod, but you must run non-M+S tires.  This was when it was a cheap/"free" upgrade to replace the blown 2-liter in your WRX with a $1900 EJ257 shortblock, which is insta-Mod)

Knurled. said:

Ranger50 said:

It’s any wonder why people at autocrosses don’t get why more people don’t participate. 

“Sorry your color is red. This class is only for white colored Soviet pre ww2 era vehicles...” 

Well, one can't complain much if they modified their car and THEN want to see what class they run in as an afterthought.

 

On the other hand, the SCCA has been trying to accept this market with new classing that is a lot more anything-goes while restricting tires.  Because the guy who finds himself bumped out to Prepared because of some innocuous hack/repair (such as me, for instance) is also probably not going to be rolling up on gum-eraser slicks.

 

(I still like Chris Hastings' idea for a rallycross class that is basically anything-goes suspension and drivetrain wise like Mod, but you must run non-M+S tires.  This was when it was a cheap/"free" upgrade to replace the blown 2-liter in your WRX with a $1900 EJ257 shortblock, which is insta-Mod)

Maybe I'm less concerned because I am not on a "nationals" (or even really locally competitive) level, but when I ran my Sonic I wasn't going to bump it out of H-Street because I put on a cone filter (literally the only "mod"). I guess if I was winning week after week maybe there would be reason to change. I would say that unless you're posting top times, you shouldn't be concerned about a "mod" that probably isn't gaining you any actual performance, like a COP swap.

_ said:

Sorry, not a sprangstang fan, so I wouldn’t have gotten it anyways.  But, please, do tell. 

They haven't been the same since Clarence died.

I tried to hold back, but eventually I caved.

_ said:

Sorry, not a sprangstang fan, so I wouldn’t have gotten it anyways.  But, please, do tell. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E_Street_Band

In reply to TheRX7Project :

Well... first time out in the car, and it is horribly under prepare for STR, I had second place in the bag. Only beaten by a few tenths by the top driver of an S2k. Maybe I’ll go for STR. Is the na8 miata competitive in that class?

In reply to Knurled. :

Maybe because there are too many classes?

Ranger50 said:

In reply to Knurled. :

Maybe because there are too many classes?

That is kind of an issue too.

That is the sort of thing that makes autocross folk look like weenies to rallycross folk.

Here's the impression:

Autocross:  "OMG unfair my Huntswaggler Bumblepuppy is outclassed in E-Ween now because they reclassed the Huntswaggler Bumblepuppy Seires III down to E, I want to be classed down to D-Ween so I have a chance of winning!!!1"

"Okay, all in favor?"

Rallycross:  "OMG it is unfair that cars with active differentials are in the same class as everyone else, make a new class!"

"You got your STi-driving ass handed to you by someone in a base Impreza wagon with blown struts, stop whining"

Ranger50 said:

In reply to Knurled. :

Maybe because there are too many classes?

You shush! "Too many classes" guaranteed me a trophy last year
I was the only one in CSP...

TheRX7Project said:

Ranger50 said:

In reply to Knurled. :

Maybe because there are too many classes?

You shush! "Too many classes" guaranteed me a trophy last year
I was the only one in CSP...

Heh.  In 2016, I tried to enter my car in Prepared Front at the Great Lakes Division rallycross championship.  Was told, are you sure, there is nobody else in that class!
 

I was confident that other people would show up.

Sure enough, I had three other competitors... and handed them their asses, while I was on UHP summer tires.  (The hosting region never did give me a trophy)

"Prepared" is usually very small.  People either have 100% stock cars because they are just having fun or they are serious enough to buy a stockly-competitive car, or they run in Modified which is basically anything goes, so they can go out and have fun and not care about rules limitations.  Prepared is for weenies

Knurled. said:

"Prepared" is usually very small.  People either have 100% stock cars because they are just having fun or they are serious enough to buy a stockly-competitive car, or they run in Modified which is basically anything goes, so they can go out and have fun and not care about rules limitations.  Prepared is for weenies

And to top it off, depending on the drivers, the cars, and the course and surface on that day, mod isn't necessarily any faster than stock anyway. 

TheRX7Project said:

Ranger50 said:

In reply to Knurled. :

Maybe because there are too many classes?

You shush! "Too many classes" guaranteed me a trophy last year
I was the only one in CSP...

Back in prehistoric times when I first started autocrossing, CSP was one of the most popular classes. (I was running a '77 Rabbit in it, to give you a hint about how long ago that was.)  Times have changed; most of those types of cars are in the ST classes where you can use more realistic tires.

Knurled. said:

Ranger50 said:

It’s any wonder why people at autocrosses don’t get why more people don’t participate. 

“Sorry your color is red. This class is only for white colored Soviet pre ww2 era vehicles...” 

Well, one can't complain much if they modified their car and THEN want to see what class they run in as an afterthought.

hey, I bought the car like this. I’m just trying to have fun, so I’ll likely just do what I want and run exhibition. I was on a real HIGH when I wrote this. Now I just want to go back out and have more fun. 

Come out to the SCCA autocrosses here in Portland. We've got a catch-all class called TC that is for anyone (in any car) with less than two years experience. I don't know if you fit into that but it's a fun class if you do. I've got 15x8s on my 99 Miata so I'd be stuck in STR too if TC didn't exist. Our next event is up in Packwood, WA on May 18-19.

That said, I guess the 99 Miatas are the hot ticket for E-street. I'm still trying to decide if I build my car for that or for a fun street car and just deal with the poor classing. 

In reply to thatsnowinnebago :

Yeah. I used to live in Portland. The last autox I did at PIR and it sucked. We got two runs in the whole day. There was too many people. Granted, that was circa 2002. 

The ACCO was great. I got 9 runs in. Five competitive, four fun. All of them nearly back to back. 

In reply to _ :

Sucks that you got so few runs last time. The three races I've been to this year all had 5 runs. So I guess they've improved but that's still not nine runs!