A soul-searching what car thread.

I want to want to autocross. That's not a typo. 
 

I really appreciate the input from those of you I've already talked to about this. I wanted to gather all my thoughts in one place, and also go through my history with autox to sort of document where I've been & why I'm at this point now. 
 

This is going to be long, so I'll break it up into a few posts & try to bullet-point the highlights. 
 

I discovered autox in the fall of 98. I had a 97 GSX and was thrilled to finally have an outlet to drive the car the way I wanted to.  It only took my first event to understand that the car wasn't going to miraculously bend to my will, but rather I had to learn to drive around what it did/didn't want to do. I was hooked, obsessed, and couldn't wait until every successive event.
 

Our club had a novice class, and other than my first even, I think I won the class the rest of that season. I didn't have the money for hood shocks or R-comps, but I put some Tokico's on it and some decently sticky street tires(this was the pre-200tw era). I don't think I won any events in GS setup like that, but I ran the Evansville, IN tour in 99 & finished well above mid-pack, which surprised me. 
 

The GSX was pretty much my dream-car at the time, as I'd been fascinated with the 1G DSM since they were first announced. Partly because the idea of an AWD sportscar that could be used year-round in snow seemed awesome - I wasn't really familiar with rally at that time - and partly because I only lived about an hour away from the DSM plant. 

How competitive do you want to be.

How much do you want to wrench versus just drive (i.e. project versus maintenance heavy versus reliability)

And of course budget. 

My daughter was born in early 2000. We bought a house shortly afterwards, and about a month later I severed my right wrist when a window I was scraping the paint off of shattered. 
 

I drove the GSX for work, about 20kmi/year, and knew the upcoming surgery would leave my right hand bandaged up like a giant qtip for 6-weeks. Her mother had an unreliable POS Blazer, so I traded both vehicles in on a Lumina sedan & Ford Aspire automatic. Ugh. 
 

I did autox the Aspire some that fall, which was comical, but not particularly fun. Eventually I bought an $800 83 VW GTI(boy I wish those still existed!) and autoxed it, but it was old, worn out, and I had zero money. 
 

Around late 2001(iirc, might have been 2002) I bought Jason Sani's old Corrodo. It was well setup & included a fairly fresh set of Hoosiers. That next season was amazing. We had a great local G Stock class with a wide variety of cars - 2.5RS Impreza, Celica Alltrac, Neons, etc. - and any of us could have won on any given day. It was the most fun I'd ever had at autox. Typically whoever won the class also too FTDI too, which was awesome.
 

Unfortunately eventually the HoHos wore out & there was no way I could have afforded another set. For that & other various reasons like people moving or switching cars/classes, the next season wasn't as fun. I was also getting more interested in trying to get a rallyx program going, and Jason had expressed interest in buying the car back, so I ended up selling it to him that winter. 

The rallyx effort ended after about a season due to lack of any suitable sites & I ended up selling off my rallyx car too.

In the summit of 2004 I found myself with a 2003 Protege & I threw a ton of parts on it that fall for the relatively new Street Touring class...and I hated it. The car wasn't really fast at all, was prone to understeer, and suffered from massive wheelspin issues. I could probably fix all of that now, but I'd already spent my budget on the setup I had. 

I picked up *another* cheap GTI - this one ABA-swapped & much better setup than the last - in 2005. Unfortunately it was still a pretty janky car, not particularly competitive, and too unreliable to autox. So I didn't race much(if at all) through 2006.

Finally in June of 2007 I bought my first Miata, a 1995 that went through a series of GRMers over about a decade. 

I've never really been a Miata fan. I autoxed an R-package car once & it was better than I expected, but I certainly wasn't in love. I didn't really like running mine in ES, and certainly didn't have the money at the time to try & make it a competitive car, so I ended up not racing much. Again. 
 

Eventually I decided I didn't like the car in stock setup, so I worked toward setting it up for STR - which was a losing proposition from the beginning. It was also my fair-weather DD at that point though, so I wanted it setup so I could enjoy it.

I did some events with it around 2016, and was generally at the back of the pack. I never really felt like I bonded with the car at autox - although my last event I had 3 successive runs within a few hundredths of a second of each other. I figured I'd peaked at that point & I'm not sure I raced it again afterward.

Then we spent about 3 years moving to the coast, and about another 1-1/2 years recovering financially from it. I did have the 85 Challenge Vette during that time, which was a complete pos and put me off on ever owning another one. 
 

In 2018 I picked up the 90 Miata I have now, and spent that spring/early summer finally able to build a car the way I wanted. It's setup for STS, and while not a national-level build, it has the right alignment & most of the right parts. 
 

I ran 3 or 4 events with it that year, but unfortunately the local club had zero actual STS competitors. There were occasionally another car or 2 that ended up in my class, but they weren't really ST cars. I got bored without having anyone to race against, not really anyone on the index either, and didn't run a single event in 2019. 

I got the DSM last spring from AnthonyGS with hopes of building a decent Challenge car, as well as possibly a longer-term autox build. I ran it a the May & June events last year & actually really liked it - despite the not great 4 year old tires, and fighting PS leaks & misfires. For the first time since I had the Corrodo, I finally felt like I nailed the slalom in the DSM. 
 

Then it developed a rod knock, so I parked it & ran the Miata for the last 4 events of the year. There still wasn't any real competition in STS, I was still barely above mid-pack on the index(although faster than the DSM in overall placement both by raw time & index), and I still never really felt like I bonded with the car. Of course the tires(RE81r's) were 2+ years old at that point, although they only had a total of about 2500 miles on them, plus the 6 autoxes. 

I've missed every event so far this year. Some because I was out of town, some because of weather, but generally because I just don't enjoy driving a car I don't really feel connected to in a class without competition, while also not placing well on the index. 

Sounds like being competitive is part of your enjoyment in racing.

That's a variable that really depends on your local club.

What classes locally have lots of participants?

That or shift your goals and shoot for overall pax FTD if there aren't any strong classes locally that interest you. Unfortunately this is usually some sort of econobox Street class on sticky tires.

If budget is the limiting factor, how do you feel about being a co-driver? Maybe someone else with a cool car and low experience would be interested in partnering with an experienced co-driver if you supply the tires.

Knowing that you've enjoyed GTIs and Fits (though not in autocrossing a Fit) I'm going to suggest an EP3 Si. (And you can go up and down the Honda scale to later Si's or to RSx type S or Integras. My thought process is that you likely enjoy torque and drivir the car out hard, as opposed to carrying the most speed through mid corner but not having much grunt on exit. 

The  K series (I know, not applicable in the Integra, which I only included because double wishbone) is reliable, easy to work on, has a vast aftermarket and can make good power, especially for the weight. RPMs are fun and engaging to have on hand as well. 

The other option, And it may be the most prudent, is to check local class results, isolate the classes with 7 or more entries on a consistent basis and select the vehicle platform that works within that class that fits your budget. You can seriously make a spreadsheet by class and the vehicles entered within the class and posted on here for commentary regarding which vehicles to avoid due to maintenance reliability are parts availability or their tendency to rust and to turn their shock towers to unpressurized pneumatic. 

So let's talk more about my Miata. It a berkeleying awesome car. It's like putting on the best pair of shoes ever & taking them for a drive. You & the car become one. But at the limit in autox I'm unable to find consistency, or any confidence in what I/the car are doing.

The a/c is also inop. When I built the car 3-years ago I wasn't sure if I wanted to go off the deep end into full STS build, or still leave some creature comforts(it has PS). So everything is intact, but im sure would need new o-rings, orifice tube, possibly a compressor & whatever other 30-year old parts might be bad by now. I'm not sure I could run the a/c in grid anyway, though the lack of it is one reason I tow the car to events. 

What about SSC? The twins are fun cars and you should be able to pick one up for not a ton of money. I like the idea of a spec class because it takes out some of the money pit aspects of building a fully competitive car - once the car has all the parts for the class, you're done.

So with the lack of confidence and consistency, does the EVO school ever get down that way? A few days at school can make a ton of difference with regards to both of those things, then if it is that the platform just isn't a fit (I mean you still won't have local competition within the class) the tools and skill sets learned will travel with you to a new platform and class. 

So let's talk about the DSM. 
 

I really had high hopes for the car. While it wouldn't win the Challenge overall, I think it could win one or more of the classes & could be near the top of the autox results, while doing fairly well at the drags too. I also think I can make it look good enough to possibly be worthy of making it on the cover of the mag. 
 

Unfortunately after measuring the crank & rod journals to ensure they're still within spec, measuring the new bearings to ensure they were stock size, assembling everything with lube, and torquing it to spec, the car died on the first test drive around the block & now has a knock when I try to start it. It also still has a power steering leak & a miss that it had last year, neither of which I've been able to fix after throwing new parts at it in an attempt to isolate the source of each problem. 

Based on how it felt more difficult to crank, the fact it didn't want to idle even though it was idling fine last year, and that it died a block from home, my hunch is it actually spun a bearing this time. Since these cranks can't be turned down, I won't be surprised if it's damaged beyond use now too. 

So at this point the engine needs to come out, come apart, go to a machine shop to make sure there's no FOD left, and reassembled by someone who actually knows how to build these things. 

I've come to the realization over the year that I'm honestly a E36 M3ty mechanic and troubleshooter, though I can generally handle basic parts-swapping. 

So while I think I'd enjoy autoxing the DSM, I'm not able to make it reliable enough for me to enjoy. I really can't handle the work of pulling the engine either, plus I truly don't have room for 3 cars in my 2-car garage, and I think realistically it would take years and thousands of dollars to sort out the car - neither of which I want to commit. 

So in my ~23 years of autox there have been 3 cars I've had the privilege to drive that I immediately felt connected to. 
 

• A bugeye WRX sedan with a mild ST setup
• A stock Evo VIII
• A 997 911 GT2 PDK

I don't have the tire budget for the 911, and the car costs about as much as my house, so that's right out. 
 

I'm seeing used Evos with questionable history in the high teens to low 20's. I could probably afford one if I financed part of it, but I really hate debt, and I'm not sure I want to deal with more old Mitsubishi problems. 
 

A friend, autocrosser, and GM of the local Subaru dealer told me years ago that I'd love racing a WRX, but I'd hate owning one. I've followed his advice ever since. 

What are the most popular classes locally?

Finally, some other thoughts & random musings. 
 

• A part of me would like a car from 1989 or prior just to be able to take part of the annual 10-day long Crusin' the Coast even here. Not that I care about any of the shows or cruises, but they have a multi-day free open autocross for participants. It's not actually any kind of structured competition, you just basically show up & run as much as you want. So in essence it's a free test-n-tune about 2 miles from my house. 
   
• A Lotus Europa is still on my list. I never got to drive either of mine(or any others for that matter), which I regret. I'm thinking an S2 setup for autox/hillclimb might be perfect though. It seems like 120hp is pretty easily attainable in a car that's under 1400lbs. So that could be fun. However the lack of a/c means I might not want to autox or drive it much in general. 
   
• I've considered giving building another locost a try, though I think it's a bigger project than I can realistically complete on my own. In the end I'd essentially have an even less practical version of what the Miata provides though. 
   
• Part of me wants to try an MGA. There was a guy who drove one over 100-miles each way to our local autoxes when I first started & I got to ride in it once. It was both awesome & slightly terrifying. Though realistically it wouldn't be competitive at autox at all. 
   
• I've also contemplated leasing something new & reasonably competitive, possibly with the intent to buy it once the lease ended. Though not right now with limited supply & high prices. I really don't like the idea of having a $300-$400/montj payment, plus the higher insurance & registration fees, especially for a car that won't be driven much at all.

Here's a couple other things to consider too. 

• Due to our driveway/parking situation, the van blocks in the Miata and/or DSM(whichever car isn't buried behind the other). I really really like the van & enjoy driving it anyway, so that's fine. I also don't really like being in traffic with the Miata due to its size. That coupled with the inop a/c, leaky window seals, etc. means the last time I drove it was unloading it from the trailer after the December autox. It's pretty likely that whatever car ends up in my side of the garage is going to experience a similar fate - at least once the newness/novelty wears off - regardless of how new/old/whatever it is. 
   
• One other thing I don't really care for about the Miata that I haven't mentioned yet is that it just doesn't feel special. In fact I can't really say there's ever been a Miata that felt special to me. Conversely the DSM does feel special - I've not seen another 1G on the road in years. So while I'd like a car that feels special, I don't want to have to suffer through misery for it. 

In reply to captdownshift (Forum Supporter) :

I don't mind a bit of parts-swapping. Things like swapping springs/shocks/swaybars/etc. as general autox prep ar ok. Well, as long as it's not a car that needs the subframe dropped to work on it...

However, I definitely don't want a restoration project or anything that's going to spend a significant portion of time undriveable. 

I'm a better driver than mechanic, and don't want a car that requires constant work. 

In reply to cmcgregor (Forum Supporter) :

I'm intrigued by SSC too. I've only seen a car or two in the class locally, and I've never driven one, so I have no idea if I'd like one. 

However, last night I was checking out specs on the twins vs. an ND2 Miata & was surprised to discover the Miata is a faster car at around the same price point. 

In reply to Driven5 :

CS/DS/GS usually have at least a couple cars. Though I'm not that concerned about the classing situation, as long as I can find competition on one level or another. For example, we have a local guy in a FoRS who usually wins FTD. He's an awesome driver & has over $17k in developing the car. Even though he rarely has anyone else in SM to run against, he's always in competition for FTD. I'd like to do that with FTDI. 

Regarding budget. If we're talking cash it's somewhat dependent on what I could sell the Miata & DSM for, but probably $8-$12 cash. Like I mentioned above, doing some sort of partial financing may be possible, but isn't something I really want to do. 

Also worth mentioning is consumables. I really don't want to deal with something that's hard on tires, requires large/expensive tires, or runs in a class needing R-comps. So I probably want to avoid any of the Street classes, since those cars are generally camber challenged. 

I'll toss this out too - I kinda think I'm broken. I just feel like maybe F/R layout car isn't for me. Other than a handful of Miatas, I've autoxed my 85 Vette a couple times, a 4th gen Z28(absolutely hated it), and an S2000(liked the power vs. a Miata), but otherwise it felt about the same - difficult to consistently find the limits of it. 

TLDR: You want an affordable FWD (or AWD) CS/DS/GS car that obviously is sporty enough to handle well, but is also different enough to feel 'special'...

It honestly sounds like you need a restored, or well sorted 90s fwd econobox. You have one (the dsm). Sounds like dumping the miatas to pay for it to be gone through would be the ideal. The trouble is finding the right guy.

Pete,

Welcome to the sandbox, I started in college in the late '70's and still actively compete and instruct today.  I have spent years helping in tech. inspection, new car are getting worked every weekend. Brand new cars!

How many events do you have access to over the year?  We in Southern California have access to monthly practice/event weekends on a monthly basis.  Maintenance is ongoing and tires get consumed.  The more enhanced your car, the faster everything gets consumed.

Definitely spend as much time in the "Novice" ranks as you can.  Think of is a "Pax" class for beginners. Use it as both a place to learn and use it as a group to judge where you and your car fall's into the food chain.  If anyone ask's, just tell them your car is stock.  Save your self the grief.

If you start with a car that is stock, all the better.  Change the fluids, refresh the brakes and drive as many events as you can.  All wheel drive cars consume money faster than just front or rear wheel drive cars. Can you tolerate under steering at speed or would you rather modulate an over steering car with the throttle?

On a local basis we do have a class for much older cars, two class in fact. We are slow, but everyone likes to take pictures of our cars. It helps to fine tune the driver, we need the most work!

David

In reply to Driven5 :

I'm not sure I want to stay in a Street class, unless one of the current competitive cars can get enough camber to not eat through tires?

The idea of an STR-prepped RF Miata intrigues me. I really don't like convertibles, and I love the blue they offer on the RF. It just seems like a waste of money to spend $$$ on a toy that rarely gets driven - although with decent a/c I would probably drive it to local events, which would certainly save the hassle of loading & unloading I currently deal with.