Aaaand the "Mustang Mach-E" has been leaked

shagles said:

In reply to mtn : Could you get a full charge in a night with a 110V outlet charger?

Not even close. Level 1 charging (110 outlet) adds about 3 or 4 miles per hour. Level 2 (220 outlet) adds about 25 miles per hour. Level 3 chargers (Some public charging stations, Tesla's Supercharger network, etc) can add range back much faster but aren't often available at home and cost more. Ford is offering one as an option that can add 32miles per hour, which would go from empty to full charge in a typical "overnight" charging situation.

Something with PHEV capabilities would be a better fit for a situation like yours, with mostly short, local trips being primarily electric and longer trips using the ICE with it's quick refilling abilities. Or go full EV and use the fuel savings to rent a vehicle for the long trips

I actually shuddered when I finally opened this thread. Ick.  But then, I always thought the original Infiniti with no grille looked like a bag of vomit, and I cannot get behind the weird looking little Tesla thing either. 

Streetwiseguy said:

I actually shuddered when I finally opened this thread. Ick. 

Yeah, me too.

I did something I don't think I ever have done on the GRM forum: I haven't read any of the preceeding pages. The only reason I'm here is that I described the new whatever-it-is to my wife this way:

"It looks like they locked a mustang in a cage and force fed it lard."  She replied that need to post that on GRM. Now I have. Bye...

shagles said:

In reply to mtn :

In a lot of places, I can see how that would be the case. But Anna TX to Katy TX gets unreasonable for me. Its already a 4hr 20 minute drive, but having to factor in a stop to charge, I'd have to take a different route that is severely out of the way and adds a full hour to the trip. Plus, and I realize that this is even more specific to me, having to stop with a sleeping toddler is 100% a no-go. That also isn't a "long" drive for Texas. A trip to South Padre Island would add over 2 hours to a 9 1/2 hour drive in an EV. 

That's a fair point on the extension cord though. I was just thinking about the wall mounted chargers that I've seen. Totally forgot that there are ones that plug into an outlet. Could you get a full charge in a night with a 110V outlet charger?

This is where the rental car scenario comes in. None of us own box trucks, we all go to U-Haul*. So a plausible scenario would be that you rent an ICE for the unfeasible EV trips, when you can't afford the extra time. If you're doing this trip once a month to visit family, that may get expensive. If you're doing it twice a year, the rental option would probably be viable. It's a shift in viewpoint.

FYI, I plugged Anna-Katy into both Google Maps and the Tesla route planner. The ICE version is 4:25. The EV version with two charging stops (15 and 25 minutes) is 5:08. They both routed along the same roads.

As noted, you can't really charge well on a 110v outlet - but if your destination has a 230v outlet, that may be plausible. We've done an overnight road trip in our EV and we just made the morning top-up part of our trip - the plan was to stop at Janel's favorite mall anyhow, and they have a charging cluster. So it didn't affect the trip.

From reading these EV threads, it becomes apparent that the average GRMer drives 400+ miles at least once a week in a desperate hurry and lives in an apartment that is three hours from anything else 

* okay, this is GRM. A disporportionate number of us likely own box trucks. But you get the point!

In reply to Keith Tanner :

I thought about the rental option and it might work. Sometimes we make the drive 3x a year, sometimes its 6x. Might be worth considering still.

Weird that it came out that way. I plugged the drive into Google and Tesla as well. In fact, just did it again. Google says take 45 all the way. Tesla says 35 over to waco and then 6 down. Maybe Tesla's changes with traffic? Not really sure and either way, it's not feasible for me. I hope it is in a few years! I'd really like SWMBO to not have to mess with getting gas before/after long ER shifts anymore. 

Tesla told me to take 45 all the way. I specified my own car, which is a long range 3. Interestingly, with a longer range car it routes through Waco for a single stop. I think this is more a problem with Tesla's route planner, because a long range S should be able to do that trip in a single leap and there's certainly no reason it should take a longer route instead of stopping once on the 45 route.

What's also interesting is how the faster charge speeds change the math. A Model 3 charges faster than a Model S, so you save 20 minutes (33%) of charge time over the standard range S.

I've already posted about the "it's just always full" aspect. My wife hates stopping for gas, so never actually having to charge in daily use is a real treat for her. I thought the real selling point was going to be the pre-heated seats, I had underestimated her hatred of gas stations. Ironically, because we got a black car, she's stopping by the gas station anyway to use the car wash :) 

Business opportunity: wash and wax while charging :)

Hmm, that's interesting. I didn't even notice you could switch cars. That's actually kind of cool. You're right, it shrinks the difference by a decent amount. Once we aren't trying to keep the kid asleep the entire trip, that could be doable. 

Well they made the Edsel. Maybe they forgot that ?

I like that Ford had Press day down the street from Tesla in Hawthorne, Ca

Not sure where test drives went as that area is on the edge of the Hood !

Electric or not, if it doesn't have a live rear axle it's not a real mustang.

From the GF "think of all the people they'll be able to run over with an electric motor, stalking in silence" 

I don't hate the way the car looks, especially that blue one posted a couple pages back.  But they need to remove the word "mustang" from the name, I'm seeing a lot of dislike all over the internet for that.  I do wish the price was a bit lower as well.  Something in the $30s would be nice; I believe this one starts in the $40s.

infinitenexus said:

I don't hate the way the car looks, especially that blue one posted a couple pages back.  But they need to remove the word "mustang" from the name, I'm seeing a lot of dislike all over the internet for that.  I do wish the price was a bit lower as well.  Something in the $30s would be nice; I believe this one starts in the $40s.

Ford claims the cheapest will MSRP at $43,895 + TTL, and then you get the $7500 tax credit to reduce that cost. So they do get to the mid-30s on a technicality.

Completely imaginary renderings of an imaginary "Shelb-E" variant. Not a bad face.

This totally invalidates any shred of credibility the Mach-E might otherwise have had:

The Ford Mustang Mach-E Pumps in Fake Exhaust Noise When You Accelerate

At least it's not fake ICE noise, but come the berk on.

Duke said:

This totally invalidates any shred of credibility the Mach-E might otherwise have had:

The Ford Mustang Mach-E Pumps in Fake Exhaust Noise When You Accelerate

At least it's not fake ICE noise, but come the berk on.

 

Why and how does this invalidate anything.  Cars and trucks have had various pipped in or recorded 'sounds' for years now. I thought the internet was over it.  

Adrian_Thompson said:

Duke said:

This totally invalidates any shred of credibility the Mach-E might otherwise have had:

The Ford Mustang Mach-E Pumps in Fake Exhaust Noise When You Accelerate

At least it's not fake ICE noise, but come the berk on.

Why and how does this invalidate anything.  Cars and trucks have had various pipped in or recorded 'sounds' for years now. I thought the internet was over it.  

Well, the internet may or may not be over it, but I sure as hell never will be.

Naturally-generated sound is one thing, even with engineering calisthenics to get it into the cabin.  But artificially generated or 'enhanced' sound is something else entirely.  I utterly despise fake louvers / grilles / intakes, too.  And fake boobs.

Fake is fake.  And fake SUCKS.  Fakeness pretty much invalidates credibility by its very definition.

Pretty much every manufacturer uses some sort of sound enhancement or generation these days; chalk it up to interior noise level improvements and exhaust noise regulations.  The quieter the exhaust has to be to pass European pass-by tests (American pass-by is not a legal requirement) , and the quieter the interior is, the more sound needs to be enhanced or generated. 

Would it be different if they were enhancing or creating electric motor whine in the cabin?  Some sort of audible feedback is necessary with EVs, as the general public is conditioned on driving ICE vehicles that provide at least some sound as output increases.

The general public may learn that noise is unnecessary. As Ulrich Baretzky said - noise is just wasted energy. So instead of trying to make an EV into a fake ICE, why not celebrate its strengths? Silent and fast.

Keith Tanner said:

The general public may learn that noise is unnecessary. As Ulrich Baretzky said - noise is just wasted energy. So instead of trying to make an EV into a fake ICE, why not celebrate its strengths? Silent and fast.

This.  Thank you.

shagles said:

In reply to Keith Tanner :

I thought about the rental option and it might work. Sometimes we make the drive 3x a year, sometimes its 6x. Might be worth considering still.

 

Interestingly, I disagree on the rental option working, at least for our use case. The cost of the rental, plus the gas for the trip, will probably be more money than the dollars saved IF it is an annual trip. At least in my calculations. Now, this DOES work if you get a rental anyways (like a family I know - family of 5, they have a Corolla and a Leaf) for your vacation. But I'd prefer to keep an ICE/PHEV minivan/SUV/Wagon/Pickup for the family trip as a third vehicle.  

Your calculations say that it's cheaper to buy/insure/maintain a third vehicle just for one trip a year? I think you have to count the gas for the trip as a given regardless of who owns the vehicle if you're not willing to charge on the way. Your own ICE will use gas just like a rental will.

I helped my mom buy a new car last year, and in her case an EV would definitely not have worked well. Normal daily use, no problem. But she spends a couple of months a year at our cottage on an island with no road access. While she's there, the car is parked in a grass parking lot with no access to power.  There is a Supercharger that's an hour away, so she'd have to do a two hour round trip to charge. There are a couple of Level 2s that are about a half hour away in a small town - she'd have to charge for 90 minutes just to cover the trip. That's it. Of course, EVs do consume a certain amount of power even when parked so you can't just leave it for three weeks and assume it'll be good. Unless we could rig up some sort of solar setup to trickle charge the car while it was parked, it really wouldn't be a good option for her. Obviously, renting a car for 2-3 months for occasional use isn't plausible, and public transport/cabs/Uber are also not available in the area.

So I do get that they don't work for every use case. But if we do consider short term rental as a way to fill in the gaps that can't be covered by EVs, they become practical for many more people.

Keith Tanner said:

Business opportunity: wash and wax while charging :)

That could get pretty exciting depending on the weatherproofness (?) of the charging system... 

They're designed to be charged outside.

This thinly-veiled advertorial in Outside Magazine lays out how Ford is going to market the Mach-E: dealers. We have dealers! So many dealers! Dealers everywhere! You can trade in! You can finance! You can sit in it! DEALERS! No weird stores in malls or buying cars on the internet!

Keith Tanner said:

Your calculations say that it's cheaper to buy/insure/maintain a third vehicle just for one trip a year? I think you have to count the gas for the trip as a given regardless of who owns the vehicle if you're not willing to charge on the way. Your own ICE will use gas just like a rental will.

 

I mis-stated up there, but it would cost us about $1,000 to $2,000 a year in rental fees annually - we usually get 2 separate week long trips in, along with at least 4 weekend trips. Obviously we could use credit card points, but those are usually used for other travel. So, is $1,000 annually more expensive than the 3rd car? Maybe, maybe not, but I also know that we've decided to go on said weekend trips literally on the day-of. If we had to rent, we wouldn't. But this being GRM, we're not the best case study as we think 3 cars is not a big deal.