Advice on a track car

Yep. Miata

/thread

I dont want a fast track car

But in all seriousness, I have a 08 135 with about 400whp and more suspension mods than i can dream of taking advantage of. I was stationed in germany for a while, and loved the car when i had the autobahn and the nurburgring. Now im in montana, with neither to take advantage of, so its time to sell the car. I love the bimmer, but it has turned me into such a lazy driver, im looking for something more raw to use for a track car, something that will let me over drive it, something that wont cost much to maintain (my rotors are over 500 bucks for the front pair), something that doesn't have a lot of power, something that will teach me to be a better driver.

I dont want a fast track car

Ive been looking at a lot of options. E30 was the first that came to mind (i love my bmw's), along with 2.5 boxster, focus svt, miata, s2000, s13/s14. I am especially interested in cars with a spec series to go along with them. I think it would help with resale value, there is sure to be an aftermarket for them (not worried about performance mods, just track reliability mods). I dont have any real track experience unless you count a few dozen nurburgring tourist driving days, but nothing competitive, no autocross, no nothing.

I dont want a fast track car

I would like something semi sporty, i might also use it as a dd. I've heard some tracks have rules about roadsters having a full cage, and i dont want to pull dd duty with a caged miata, which has me leaning more towards the coupes. I have never owned, or driven in a spirited manner, a fwd vehicle. my aforementioned friend assures me that a fwd car will teach me things i would never learn in a rwd car, so i kinda wanna give that a shot (hence the focus) but my last 7 cars have all been rwd, and all been bmw's, so even considering most of these cars is a huge step outside my comfort zone.

I dont want a fast track car

What are your ideas? Any and all are welcome, but please give at least a couple sentences to back up your suggestion.

And yes, I know...

Miata.

Are you going to daily the car as well? Will you run separate tires for track day or autocross? Will you tow the car to the track? How far do you have to go to get to a track?

I actually like FWD but I think they are more fun on an autocross course than a track mainly because tracks tend to be higher speed in general and they are down on power (usually) I know you say you don't want a FAST track car.

It's going to be really hard to find something more fun than a miata that isn't fast. If you need more day to day practicality or comfort that is where I think you will have to compromise

Yugo.

You said you didn't want fast.

Mazda Protege5, great DD, handles great out of the box and is super easy to improve.

Fwd though and that appears to be an issue for you (understandably).

Wouldn't be fast at least!

In reply to Jaynen:

I might daily the car, i might not. Im not buying another non-track car until i sell the 135 and find an e39 wagon with a 6 cyl and manual. So i might daily it for a while, i might not. If i do end up getting a miata and it pulls dd duty, no big deal, i can get snow tires, and i have friends with trucks.

I will run seperate wheels/tires on the track, i will probably run seperate pads as well, but i like to swap those at home and drive to the track with them on. i think the closest track is over an hour away, most autocross events are at least the same. Im not worried about classes for autocross, or anything like that. i just want wheel time under my belt.

Thanks for the quick reply!

Miata.

They are so awesome I have a '90 for a track car and an '06 for a DD.

Handle well, light (so easy on consumables), large aftermarket, etc.

My only suggestion would be to start with an NB over an NA, just for the more powerful engine and better flowing head on the 1.8. An intake/exhaust/standalone and tune will get you 140whp...........good suspension and R-comps and you'll be embarrassing guys with much more expensive machinery.

In reply to z31maniac:

I dont think i could own an NB, nothing against the car, but i have a hard-on for pop up headlights. I also think you overestimate my driving, i will not be embarrassing anyone but myself on the track.

ezeedee wrote: I also think you overestimate my driving, i will not be embarrassing anyone but myself on the track.

Well, see... you can work on that part and it goes along with whatever car you happen to have. So... drink the cool-aid, buy the Miata and have fun.

Then, when you are sick of all the other guys kick-stomping your guts all day get a faster car or mod the hell out of the Miata. (that part where you add tires and embarrass anyone in a Miata counts on them not not doing the same thing AND them sucking at driving - by the time you get to the advanced group neither of those things will be true)

You've already answered your own question. Miata is an obvious answer.

My challenge with a Miata as a DD is that they're really not powerful, at all. 10 seconds 0-60 mean this jaded driver is bored and frustrated if I'm trying to take advantage of traffic gaps during my morning commute.

Now, this is easily remedied with a turbo kit (queue Keith!) but that can sacrifice track reliability if the mod isn't performed carefully. The good thing about turbo'ing a Miata is it's been done to death. All wrinkles have solutions. You can also incrementally sneak up the performance level you want.

If you a competent track car and daily out of the box...S2000 sounds like a good solution. That said, some folks complain of a lack of torque. I drove one eons ago and below 5k it felt like an economical car to me. It was a test drive with a salesman in the passenger seat so I didn't wring it's neck to see the difference. I have seen S2000's tracked to much success at VIR and Summit Point.

If you like BMW's and don't mind the cost of maintenance....E36 M3?

In reply to Xceler8x:

the only thing keeping me from the miata or the s2000 is the cage rule at some tracks. whichever car i get, i probably wont keep it more that a year or two. i want a car i dont care about, something i can put into a wall and total, and not lose any sleep over it. I cant do that with the 135 because i have too much invested in it, im scared to push the limits, and if i dont push the limits, i will never learn.

OK-- If you've enjoyed BMWs, I DD (three seasons out of the year) a Z4 3.0si Coupe and run it 10 or so track days a year.

It's not Miata cheap, but you don't have to worry about whether a group allows convertibles or not, and, if you keep 17" wheels on it, you hit what I feel is a pretty sweet sport for cost of consumables-- the last set of Michelin PSSs I bought were at $140 apiece and brake rotors are under $300 shipped for all four corners. You definitely avoid the M tax on parts, but you have to reconcile yourself to the fact that there a 330 hp versions of your 255 hp car out there. You do get all the torque you're going to get at less than 3000 rpm though, which is also different from the Ms.

It's plenty quick at the track (though, like a Mini, long straights get kind of dull) and is a real hoot when you get some rotation going, as you're sitting just in front of the rear axle.

You do have to make sure you fit inside with a helmet on. Taking it to the track without a support vehicle is a bit like driving a two seat toolbox, but you're getting over 30 mpg on the highway.

Well if the roll bar/cage for convertibles are a problem with the groups/tracks you'd be running at then I'd also suggest an E36 of some kind. A 328 might not be as fast as an M3, but they're MUCH cheaper if you don't want to worry about balling it up.

Also, isn't there a spec E36?

There is, I think its just called Spec 3. E36 is a great choice as well and much easier to haul a second set of wheels/tires and track stuff in

If you can't find a decent E26 then look for a '05 Mazda6i with the 4cyl 5-speed combo.

Oh yeah, if you really wanted a low power-n-weight car you could always go with the 318ti

My suggestion goes to the E36 also or an E30. Both are great for a lot of the same reasons a Miata is except with the room to carry a couple chairs, cooler, canopy, extra wheels/tires etc etc.

Matt B wrote: Well if the roll bar/cage for convertibles are a problem with the groups/tracks you'd be running at then I'd also suggest an E36 of some kind. A 328 might not be as fast as an M3, but they're MUCH cheaper if you don't want to worry about balling it up. Also, isn't there a spec E36?

BMWCCA has a spec E36 class, NASA has Spec3.

ezeedee wrote: In reply to z31maniac: I dont think i could own an NB, nothing against the car, but i have a hard-on for pop up headlights. I also think you overestimate my driving, i will not be embarrassing anyone but myself on the track.

That's the great thing about a Miata, it's low running costs will allow many more track days per unit of money than a faster/more powerful car will.

In reply to GPS: I'm also biased toward my local track where things like Terry Fair's TT3 Mustang aren't much faster than a well driven Miata with AST's and NT-01s. Hallett is TIGHT.

Or a first-gen Mr2 , but ut doesn't have the SPEC following.

Looks like I've sold my E30, got a deposit on it.

Now were searching for an E36 M3, or a E46 330i Coupe.

Enjoy!

Neon ACR?

I wish you were closer. I'd try to work out a deal to trade you my gutted, roll bar'd turbo Miata (plus cash) for your 135. I really want to try a 135!

Since you're not, but you are clearly another BMW guy like me (I've owned 7), I too would recommend an e36 (M or non-M). I've owned 2 different e36 M3s and LOVED them.

ezeedee wrote: In reply to Jaynen: I might daily the car, i might not. Im not buying another non-track car until i sell the 135 and find an e39 wagon with a 6 cyl and manual.

Forgot to comment on this part too. I searched and searched and searched for a manual transmission e39 wagon. They're tough to find, at least with reasonable mileage on them. We ended up with a 2006 Volvo V70R instead. It's a pretty neat alternative and has the advantage of AWD, which might be of interest to you.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:

Matt B wrote: Well if the roll bar/cage for convertibles are a problem with the groups/tracks you'd be running at then I'd also suggest an E36 of some kind. A 328 might not be as fast as an M3, but they're MUCH cheaper if you don't want to worry about balling it up. Also, isn't there a spec E36?

BMWCCA has a spec E36 class, NASA has Spec3.

Cool, two places to play. Any idea if the prep rules similar?

Wow, thanks for all the replies.

I wouldnt mind an e36, they are one of my least favorite bmw's, and consumables will cost more than most others, but initial purchase price the same or lower than an e30, and i wouldnt feel the least bit bad about wrecking one. Having two separate spec classes for it is also pretty neat. I also saw a 99 civic si for sale near me, bone stock, 5000. anyone have an opinion on this?

Having drank the Kool-Aid almost ten years ago on a Spec Miata, I can honestly tell you that it's the way to go. Rotors for $80 for all four, tires for less than $650, and runs on pump gas from what ever Shell station is closest to the track. Just a couple of months ago, I passed a Dinan M3, an FProduction 2002, and a brand new Shelby Mustang Cobra in a NASA HPDE3 session at Sebring, WITH the owner of that particular SM in the passenger seat!

Many people have jumped from high powered cars into SM, and found out that power was masking a lot of their bad driving. A SM will INSTANTLY let you know if you got it right or not. And the network of Miata help out there is vast. I've seen several out there in the $7k or less range lately for the earlier cars. You should probably at least go rent one first, preferably with telemetry and a driver coach.