Alfa Miata?

It seems the relative success of the Toybaru has spawned a copy-cat:

By: Greg Kable on 1/18/2013 said: Fiat, Mazda to jointly develop roadster The Fiat Group and Mazda Motor Corp. have finalized an agreement to co-develop a pair of compact two-seat roadsters that will go on sale in the United States in 2015. The cars will be the fourth-generation Mazda MX-5 Miata and a modern interpretation of the classic Alfa Romeo Spider. The cars will share a common rear-wheel-drive platform, key chassis components and electric architecture. Limited details of the joint project were revealed last year. The Mazda and Alfa Romeo versions will use unique engines. The MX-5 Miata will use Mazda's latest four-cylinder SkyActiv gasoline engine of as yet unspecified capacity. The Alfa Romeo Spider is set to offer a uniquely tuned version of the four-cylinder unit used in the Giulietta hatchback.

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20130118/CARNEWS/130119837?utm_source=DailyDrive20130118&utm_medium=enewsletter&utm_term=article8&utm_content=20130118-Alfa-Romeo,-Mazda-confirm-roadster-project&utm_campaign=awdailydrive

Copy-cat? I'm pretty sure that Mazda's two-seat roadster development has been ongoing since the mid-1980s;)

Mazda is trying to make back its Miata R&D spend through licensing fees, and Alfa outsourcing engineering work since the rest of their lineup is fwd. With any luck, the increased volume of a two-model platform will help keep prices affordable.

Anyone found renderings of what the new Alfa will look like?

In reply to nderwater:

http://www.diseno-art.com/news_content/2012/06/2015-alfa-romeo-spider-speculated/

If this ends up close, it'll look good IMHO.

If Alfa ever comes back.

In reply to yamaha:

Oh, that is pretty...

My WRX says I just don't get that excited about new cars, but if I were to go ahead and start throwing more money at it to firm it up and so forth, maybe that Alfa could be really special...

Sigh. C'mon Ransom, go back to playing with cars that don't have you paying a new-car premium for a bunch of stuff you just want to replace anyhow...

The only thing that scares me is "share the same electric architecture"

yamaha wrote: In reply to nderwater: http://www.diseno-art.com/news_content/2012/06/2015-alfa-romeo-spider-speculated/ If this ends up close, it'll look good IMHO.

Now, THAT, is a good looking Miata. Keep the price low, don't make the nice go bits part of the uber expensive package, and they have a winner on and off the track.

turboswede wrote: If Alfa ever comes back.

It was 2 year delay in 1996, 2000, 2002, 2005, 2008, 2010, 2012, and again in 2013. I suspect it will be a 2 year delay for quite a few more years.

Flight Service wrote: Now, THAT, is a good looking Miata. Keep the price low, don't make the nice go bits part of the uber expensive package, and they have a winner on and off the track.

While I agree that it's a good looking car, Alfa can't really afford to keep the price low. Being that they make so few cars in Europe, their only decent chance for survival is to be somewhere around BMW/Audi price and sales and survive. Doing that, I don't think they can possibly sell their "signature" car- the one so related to the older cars- anywhere near the price of the Miata and not impact the price of the entire line of cars.

Theoretically, they should shoot for BMW prices, which is where they were in the early 70's, and things were doing well. So, IMHO, it would be more Z4 than Miata price, even though the cars are virtually identical (4 cyl, 2 seats, not big, etc).

and when I originally saw this brought up many months ago, I posted that I think this is Fiat showing some serious despiration with Alfa Romeo. They have no idea what to do next, since Alfa can't really figure out how to make a decent car for the price they need to sell it at. Their cars are good- in the Ford price range. But they don't sell very many, which means they have to be sold at a premium. At the premium, they are not good cars.

I certainly hope it works out for them. Otherwise, I bet by 2020, Alfa will either be dead or part of a different company.

Now if we are talking about putting a Miata rollerskate UNDER a GTV, Spider, or Berlina, well, I have thought about that. Too bad I'm not doing a lot of work on cars these days.

To compete with the toyoburu it needs a roof. I still want a miata with a roof, and not one that clips in place, but a real structural roof. I like roofs.

mazdeuce wrote: To compete with the toyoburu it needs a roof. I still want a miata with a roof, and not one that clips in place, but a real structural roof. I like roofs.

In principle I agree. But the Miata and Alpha are defined as convertibles and the roof does not fit the niche.

I have an FRS and I have owned a Miata for a substantial number of years. They really are different creatures altogether.

The irony here is that the Miata with the fold-down soft top, was a better winter car than the FRS for a variety of reasons.

Why would it have to compete with the Toyobaru? The Miata has a pretty well-defined place in the market. The current generation is a bit of a dud, sales-wise, but I think that's a reflection of the car more than the market.

Electric architecture is going to refer to the main wiring harness in the car. Why would putting a Japanese wiring setup in an Italian car be scary? Seems like an upgrade to me

Keep in mind that the rendering above is complete imagination. Nobody knows what the ND Miata looks like, so the hard points are unknown. It's just a pretty drawing of a convertible with an Alfa nose.

I heard about this already. I would expect it to be in more the Z4 range of prices then the FRS price. Alfa is a preminum brand like BMW and Audi remember.

alfadriver wrote: and when I originally saw this brought up many months ago, I posted that I think this is Fiat showing some serious despiration with Alfa Romeo. They have no idea what to do next, since Alfa can't really figure out how to make a decent car for the price they need to sell it at. Their cars are good- in the Ford price range. But they don't sell very many, which means they have to be sold at a premium. At the premium, they are not good cars.

I have been in a couple modern Alfas and they are better then Fords.

93EXCivic wrote:

alfadriver wrote: and when I originally saw this brought up many months ago, I posted that I think this is Fiat showing some serious despiration with Alfa Romeo. They have no idea what to do next, since Alfa can't really figure out how to make a decent car for the price they need to sell it at. Their cars are good- in the Ford price range. But they don't sell very many, which means they have to be sold at a premium. At the premium, they are not good cars.

I have been in a couple modern Alfas and they are better then Fords.

I've driven a number of modern Alfas, and, sadly, they are the same. Looks only go so far, driving means a lot. We've had a GT, a few 156's, and a 159- and none of them were remarkable or interesting to drive. That's the problem. If I can be blunt, they are very much - Lincoln is to Ford what Alfa is to Fiat. Just as interesting. This from me being an Alfa guy, not cheering for Ford. It really makes me mad that the Alfas are very unremarkable cars to drive.

If Alfa came back tomorrow, they would sell some cars to previous owners, some to people who think they are good based on magazines, and then sales would stop abruptly as people find out that they are not getting what they are paying for. Exactly like the 500 right now.

Good car for the mass market, not for the market they are trying to appeal to or the volumes they are making.

NOHOME wrote: In principle I agree. But the Miata and Alfa are defined as convertibles and the roof does not fit the niche.

Only in the US. The rest of the world sees Alfas as sedans and coupes with intersting convertibles available. Dating WAY back, too- the Giulietta Spider was more driven by the US than Europe.

93EXCivic wrote: I heard about this already. I would expect it to be in more the Z4 range of prices then the FRS price. Alfa is a preminum brand like BMW and Audi remember.

So they'll have to be in the middle to upper 30's range......not far off as the miata will probably be in about the same range as the toyobaru in the middle to high 20's.....

Also, yes, that link was all guesses, but wouldn't it be something.

nderwater wrote: Copy-cat? I'm pretty sure that Mazda's two-seat roadster development has been ongoing since the mid-1980s;)

I meant two companies taking a niche-market car and combining resources to develope it and increase profit potential. Granted, it sounds like the Mazda and Alfa versions will have enough differences to not be easily confused like the GT86 twins can be.

I agree the Alfa will likely be priced in the Z4-range, although may under-cut it some. It seems to me there's market room for a roadster priced between the MX5 and the Z4/Boxter.

One could see existing Fiat dealers slapping an Alfa badge on the wall and selling this car next to the 500 in the US. It would be a good way to restart the brand in the US and make way for other Alfas

Hell... there's even an out-side shot Fiat could add that Dodge Demon concept car to the mix... Eh... maybe not.

93EXCivic wrote: I have been in a couple modern Alfas and they are better then Fords.

I have been in many modern Fords and they are better than your grammar.

I prefer this concept to the one above. Either will be welcome though.

Flight Service wrote:

93EXCivic wrote: I have been in a couple modern Alfas and they are better then Fords.

I have been in many modern Fords and they are better than your grammar.

At least, I did the important thing right and spelled Alfa right.

If they're going upmarket with it, they should also throw in a lightweight V6.

It's damn good looking though.

When I first saw this thread, I assumed that it was about putting a Miata motor in one of the many abandoned Spyders out there.

I see some Boxster in the front and Z8 out back.

So Fiat is wrapped up in Chrysler, and now Mazda is in the room (they are fully divorced from Ford now, right?) how is this gonna turn out? Will a new little Dodge pop-up too? Viper Jr?

Edit: The Demon was already mentioned. But hey, the more that can be built off the platform, better chance of it happening right?

Gearheadotaku wrote: I see some Boxster in the front and Z8 out back. So Fiat is wrapped up in Chrysler, and now Mazda is in the room (they are fully divorced from Ford now, right?) how is this gonna turn out? Will a new little Dodge pop-up too? Viper Jr?

Dodge Razor ohpleaseohpleaseophleaseohpleaseohpleaseohpleaseohplease

kreb wrote: If they're going upmarket with it, they should also throw in a lightweight V6.

In theory, Alfa has always been up market. Certainly, they should be when you see how many cars they make.

On this specific deal, I thought I also saw that the deal was more than just the Miata, but up to the RX chassis. (something a lot of us hoped would happen with Mercury and Lincoln... ) If that happens, then the old system of spider/coupe/sedan off the same chassis should be pretty easy.